Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 03:03:35 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #309 - 3 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Children's rank (Chris Holmes) 2. teaching kids and money matters (Rudy Timmerman) 3. doing the do (David Weller) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Chris Holmes" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:01:20 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Children's rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, I do teach a childrens curriculum and I promote the kids to jr blackbelt. I make it understood that they are not offically an adult blackbelt. I have personally witnessed the life changing impact a good kids curriculum can have on a kid's life. Students who were afraid to go to school are now confident but not cocky. Instead of being bullied themselves they are standing up for kids who are being picked on as they once were. I have students who have gone from being C and D students to straight A students. I believe that my classes and some assistance from God have made a tremedous impact on where these kids will go in life. I have 4 from red belt to purple belt who want to be MA instructors when they grow up. >Sorry, I DO have a problem with this. In MA we are talking about being able >to actually > DO what a person is represented as being able to DO. What is it that I am misrepresenting? >1.) A child CANNOT defend themselves adequately against an adult. It is a >cheap sales >trick to represent that with MA training a child somehow becomes abduction >proof or >assault proof or bully proof. I teach my kids how to use their brain, techniques, and try to outwit and outlast these situations. I don't make any promises or guarentees but I believe that we are doing our kids and society a disservice if we don't prepare them as best we can. I have seen a huge impact on the problem of bullying..... >2.) A child is NOT well-served by a FALSE self-confidence. Bestowing a >Black Belt on >a child reinforces the idea that there is some sort of magic in the much >desired cotton >strip around the child's waist. What about a real sense of confidence? They perservered, they didn't quit...... I make my students very much aware that a blackbelt, even a jr blackbelt means that you are just getting ready to start your martial arts journey. >If what is being said is true then I throwdown the following challenge. > >a.) As part of the test for they child dress an adult in Full-contact gear >and award >points as a function of how long it takes the child to fight themselves >free of the >adults' grasp. Why don't you present the same challenge to your friend from Florida..... both of you sign waivers..... Or maybe Grandmaster Ji...... See how long it takes him to make you tap out? Would you being willing to quit complaining, teaching, and wearing a blackbelt if you couldn't stop Gm Ji from making you tap? After all you are a "BLACKBELT". Chris Holmes --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:53:27 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching kids and money matters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > ".......I have seen a lot of kids with 2nd Dans, 3rd Dans, and even > a few 4th Dans. > It seems to be that some styles/schools will pass kids and promote > kids > solely on the premis that it is good for their self confidence, > which, I > don't have a problem with......" > > Sorry, I DO have a problem with this. In MA we are talking about > being able to actually > DO what a person is represented as being able to DO. > > 1.) A child CANNOT defend themselves adequately against an adult. > It is a cheap sales > trick to represent that with MA training a child somehow becomes > abduction proof or > assault proof or bully proof. > > 2.) A child is NOT well-served by a FALSE self-confidence. > Bestowing a Black Belt on > a child reinforces the idea that there is some sort of magic in the > much desired cotton > strip around the child's waist. > > If what is being said is true then I throwdown the following > challenge. > > a.) As part of the test for they child dress an adult in Full- > contact gear and award > points as a function of how long it takes the child to fight > themselves free of the > adults' grasp. > > b.) Institute a policy of TOTAL reimbursement of ALL tuition and > belt tests paid > on the occasion of the child being assaulted and unable to protect > themselves > following the bestowing of a Black Belt. > > If KMA and teaching children is so damn important to you folks and > your position > is that you are teaching children GENUINE MA then I submitt that > you put the > money that you are earning when your words are. Any Takers? I understand the point Bruce is trying to make; however, I think his point is only valid IF we think that martial arts is still the same as it was when first organized, and I do not believe that it is. Things change over time. At one point martial arts were perhaps designed to make practitioners better combatants, and the use of weapons such as we have to day was rare. Hence it was effective as self-defense. Nowadays, a teen can put you away just for fun with a sub machine gun the likes that the Canadian armed forces cannot afford. He can do that while driving a fast car (most of US can['t afford) not caring or even thinking about who he is putting in the ground. I think this makes martial arts as a method of self-defense just a tad less effective; however, it has become clear that martial arts are highly effective training for fitness and self-esteem building for kids who needed some discipline and encouragement. The "belt system" (that was never really important for self-defense) became an important tool to keep students around long enough to make this work. Let's face it, the belt system was of little use for anything else, and you can't teach ANYTHING to a kid that leaves for lack of encouragement. So, some folks try to hang onto the illustrious historical values of martial art... but it is in vain. Change is inevitable, and to fight change is a losing battle. If we want to fight to win, we could be more effective by using martial arts (as it is viewed by the masses) to "make a difference". I consider it self-defense if I can keep one more kids from trying to get his or her hands on an Uzi or if I can prevent one more heart attack by encouraging an adult to stay in reasonable shape using the belt system as a method of encouragement. I refuse to get hung up on what martial arts USED to be, because I am too busy trying to use it for the good it CAN do. In another post Bruce speaks of money. I see nothing wrong with "earning" a living by teaching martial arts. It was done in the old days as well, but it was a bit easier to spot a good instructor... he was alive. The bad ones seldom survived long enough to attract students. The problem is NOT earning money, the problem is ripping people of in a plethora of manner from poor Instruction, to overcharging, to plain out cheating. Business ethics are non existent in most sectors of business (if not all), and nothing brought this more to light than the recent scandals that focused on celebrities like Martha and her sweet smile. Nothing new in corporate cheating and gauging, but more evident due to media coverage. I've taught non profit for more years than most have been training, and I paid the price from divorce to having no pension... no one cares. Wake up before you too are alone and without enough funds to "buy" yourself a spot in a rest home, and do not count on your students to help you live out your remaining years... heck most won't even visit their parents in the old folks home. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 3 From: David Weller Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:20:28 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] doing the do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Would this include standing on the sidelines at seminars engaging in "debate-do", or cutting out early over "philosophical" differences? Just curious. On Jul 28, 2005, at 5:04 AM, a KMA expert wrote: > In MA we are talking about being able to actually DO what a person is > represented as being able to DO. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest