Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 03:03:43 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #310 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. High Dan Kids (D P) 2. childrens dans (tkdsid@aol.com) 3. (no subject) (Wilson, Byron) 4. Decorum (Gordon) 5. Re: children black belts (Kevin Luttrell) 6. Re: (no subject) (jakskru) 7. Sacrifice is the key (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "D P" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 07:24:30 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] High Dan Kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, I will address your points in the same order you have them in your posting. "In MA we are talking about being able to actually DO what a person is represented as being able to DO." I believe these high dan kids can do what they are suppose to be able to do at such a rank, against other kids. "1.) A child CANNOT defend themselves adequately against an adult. It is a cheap sales trick to represent that with MA training a child somehow becomes abduction proof or assault proof or bully proof." I agree with this point, however, no one expects an 8 year old girl to be able to defeat a 20 or 30 something year old man, however, she will be able to defend her self against people her own age and a little older. She will have confidence and she will at least be able to try to escape and maybe actually escape. I recently saw on tv where a 16 year old girl was abducted from the back of a store she worked in. The guy simply walked up to her, grabbed her by the wrist, and walked off with her, she did not put up a fight or even try to get away, I, in my heart of hearts believe that had she studied MA, she would have done something. As far as being "bully proof," I was never bullied in school because people knew I studied MA. "2.) A child is NOT well-served by a FALSE self-confidence. Bestowing a Black Belt on a child reinforces the idea that there is some sort of magic in the much desired cotton strip around the child's waist." What makes you think it is FALSE self-confidence, they should be confident that they can defend themselves against kids their own age and a little older. Anyone with any common sense knows, for example, an 8 year old girl or boy will not be able to defend themselves against an adult, however, at least they will have enough confidence to at least try, that's all we really want, we want the kids to at least have an idea of what to do and have the courage to try to protect themselves regardless of the age or size of their opponent. I like the "a" of your challenge, however, "b" is ridiculous. "b.) Institute a policy of TOTAL reimbursement of ALL tuition and belt tests paid on the occasion of the child being assaulted and unable to protect themselves following the bestowing of a Black Belt." God forbid, but if something like that happens to a child, I think the parents and everyone else who knows the child will have more important things to worry about than the money they paid for their child to learn MA. Lastly, MA is more than being able to defend yourself, it is about learning discipline, respect, honor, courage, integrity, etc. Sure, we would all like for our children to be abduction proof, bully proof, etc., but we have to realize, none of us are, however, we, as martial artist, are better prepared to defend ourselves than the average person who has never studied MA. With best regards, Don _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:09:54 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] childrens dans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Colleagues, Can we get real for a second? How many black belt adults can effectively handle themselves in a urban situation? The whole belt situation is absurd. Too many people sell dans, too many people charge too much money, no uniform standards yadda yadaa. It seems to me that this is a vacant argument. Sid --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:10:16 -0400 From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this a voluntary bulletin board and I am not required to read the contents. However, I have learned a great deal about martial arts from this resource. My conundrum is that I am growing increasingly tired of the vitriolic conversations and rude writings that seem to becoming more frequent. No replies are necessary nor sought. I simply wanted to express my opinion for the benefit of those on the board that may feel the same. Byron C. Wilson TKD Student --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:59:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Decorum Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this a voluntary bulletin board and I am not required to read the contents. However, I have learned a great deal about martial arts from this resource. My conundrum is that I am growing increasingly tired of the vitriolic conversations and rude writings that seem to becoming more frequent. No replies are necessary nor sought. I simply wanted to express my opinion for the benefit of those on the board that may feel the same. Byron C. Wilson TKD Student I agree with Mr. Wilson. We must remember who we are and consider how this forum affects those who look up to us. My instructor, as I'm sure all of yours did, drilled the tenants into my mind. Every time I speak or act, the thought of how my actions will affect those around me comes unbidden. Our tone and demeanor must be brilliant, noble, exemplary and above all, honorable. Gordon Okerstrom TKD HKD Instructor --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 13:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Luttrell To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: children black belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I also teach children in my classes, In fact most of my students are families that train side by side working for the same goal. I promote children to Poome or Junior black belt when they are ready. I think one problem about the diacussion is the actual meaning of what a black belt represents. To one person, a black belt means one thing and another person it represents something else. To say that a child could never defend against an adult would be inaccurate, to educate a child, or as a matter of fact anyone, to believe that they would be able to defend against anyone who might attack them would also be wrong. Of course, a child would have a slim chance of escaping from an adult, but would it also be as damaging to a child that he would have no chance of survival against an adult if he needed to defend himself. Wouldnt you want to teach the child a realistic point of view. Make him aware and teach him to fight in a worse case scenario instead of no hope at all. I recently read in our local newpaper about an 11 year old girl who escaped an assailant from inside an elevator here in Springfield, Missouri. She accredited her Awareness, and fighting spirit to her TaeKwonDo lessons. Now, I agree that it is better to not get into a situation where this might take place, but to teach a child that he has no chance at all when in the worse case scenario is wrong. I too believe that martial arts today are more about self improvement through the vehicle of martial arts training, rather than combat. Although, for me I love the combat. I believe that both things are important aspects of martial arts training. Training soldiers, warriors ect....I dont think that you can honestly say that the same idea is true. If your going into battlefield conditions there is a good chance you might not escape. But you wouldnt try your very best to prepare with every available resource. Would you train soldiers to fear the day they might have to go into battle? Or would you let them live in fear of the day they might be called to act? Its the same for anyone else, they will be much better off being confident, living without fear, but being aware of the worse case scenario and if they need to fight for their life? Then Fight with indomitable spirit. Some may never achieve, if doubt is first planted so they might never try..... so I will continue to educate my students to fight if they have too. Even in the face of the impossible. Master Kevin Luttrell Director The Martial Artist Foundation Springfield, Mo. Visit The Martial Artist Foundation Official Website and Sign up for FREE Dish Network Offer Support TMAF at www.sportTKD.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:15:02 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Wilson, i kind of agree....but sometimes you gotta just sit back and laugh...god i miss craig stovall! also, if you look closely....it always seems to be the same few people, so might i suggest that in your own interests, just simply delete their messages or ignore them alltogether. personally, i read them all, even if they are rude...its good practice for myself to keep up my self control and to control any emotional response i may initially have ( except laughter of course!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wilson, Byron" To: Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:10 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) > I know this a voluntary bulletin board and I am not required to read the > contents. However, I have learned a great deal about martial arts from > this resource. > > My conundrum is that I am growing increasingly tired of the vitriolic > conversations and rude writings that seem to becoming more frequent. No > replies are necessary nor sought. I simply wanted to express my opinion > for the benefit of those on the board that may feel the same. > > Byron C. Wilson > TKD Student > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Sacrifice is the key Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Taiwan News Sacrifice key to taekwondo star's success 2005-07-30 by Chang Ling-Yin Unswerving determination in her bright and piercing eyes, light brown hair hanging down her back in a simple plait, Chen Shih-hsin, Olympic taekwondo gold medalist overcomes life's difficulties with her unique philosophy and a fighting spirit. Chen has always faced challenges with great courage. Known as a perfectionist, she never gives up, even after defeats, because of a strong desire to excel and respect for her father's standards. Her father's dream was always to produce an Olympic gold medalist and he firmly supported Chen when she insisted on practicing taekwondo. But the road from dream to reality has been a long and challenging one. "One minute of glory requires twenty years of practice," said Chen during an exclusive interview this week with the Taiwan News. Chen, who has been practicing taekwondo since she was five years old, said her father, Chen Wei-hsiung, also her coach, strictly disciplined her. She said that her father has always been stern with his own child and lenient towards others'. She recalled being disciplined more severely than his other students and even getting scolded in public sometimes. Nonetheless, her parents have played the most important role in her rise to success, Chen said, adding that her family gives her the biggest support in life. Chen strongly believes the Chinese saying regarding filial piety: "The tree wants to be still - but the wind is blowing; the son wants to show his respect - but his parents have gone." If she earns ten dollars, she would spend two dollars on herself and give eight dollars to her parents or put it into a savings account, she said. She trusts her mother to guide her in the right direction because her mom is wise, she said with a smile. Her mom not only buys her books on how successful people can handle mood swings and enhance their intelligence, but also reminds her that as a successful sportswoman, EQ is more important than IQ, Chen related. Chen, who was catapulted into the stoplight with her 2004 Olympic gold medal win, has adapted well to her celebrity status, but maintains her core values and aspirations. She said she always gets excited about new challenges and pursues fresh challenges in her work. Because of the publicity and honor that come with winning an Olympic gold medal, Chen said, she leads a colorful life. She has had many chances to participate in different kinds of activities, and often faces new challenges and learns from new and difficult situations. She expressed the opinion that sacrifice and enjoyment are two sides of the same coin. "I sacrifice my leisure time but also enjoy learning a lot of new things," she said. Chen noted that while athletes in some other disciplines often have to lose weight in order to stay on top of their game, in her case, she needs to gain weight. Trying to gain weight could be a painful experience, Chen said, relating that there were times when she ate so much she felt sick, but could not vomit. Her challenges come in all different forms these days and dealing with intense media attention is just one more skill that she has had to learn. She noted that because she remains down-to-the-earth and very open, she is never afraid of the paparazzi. "In the spotlight, I'm just myself." Chen said. But while there have been some changes in her life because of her gold medal win, there is much that remains the same. Clearly excited at striking a good bargain, she proudly related that she paid only NT$190 for the red and white T-shirt she was wearing. That's one thing that has not changed - she still likes to buy cheap clothes and shop at street stalls. Having risen to the pinnacle of her sport at the age of 26, perhaps the most absorbing question for the young woman now is what's next. But according to Chen, as soon as the Olympic prize giving ceremony ended, she started to ponder her next step. At present, she is a graduate student at Taipei Physical Education College. The physical exercise program focuses on methods of attaining mental and physical health, with emphasis on sculpting the body to a high level of fitness. In August, she will begin work as an associate professor at the college and plans to eventually study for a PhD. Chen is fully prepared to approach her job as an associate professor with the meticulous attention she gives to her sport. She also plans to study hard and try to attain a broad global perspective as she aims to continue to contribute to the development of sports in Taiwan. She noted that currently the funds allocated by the government for development of sports in Taiwan fall far short when compared to the U.S., and some European countries. However, Taiwan does provide more funding for sports than many other countries in Southeast Asia, she noted. She suggested that complaining does not achieve much and that sportspeople should, for the time being, take responsibility for their performances and should plan their own futures. She stressed the value of staying organized and properly maintaining one's personal space and appearance. It is impossible for a person who keeps an untidy and disorganized room to make great achievements, Chen said. She also espoused the value of positive thinking and life experiences. Recalling that she left home for three years and returned when she was about 21 years old, Chen said the experience of facing hard times during those years had help her to become more steady and sensible. Hardship strengthens a person, she said, and motivates them to succeed. One of Chen's big dreams is to become a member of the International Olympic Committee in the future. She is convinced that if one has a dream and works hard to realize it, God will do the rest. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest