Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:58:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #334 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: RE: Lok's hapkido school (Jye nigma) 2. Re: Craig and forms (Jae Stulock) 3. Re: Sunmudo (Klaas Barends) 4. Temples in Korea (J R Hilland) 5. Re: RE: Black eye... (Dave) 6. Re: 'combat' Hapkido (Tom Kennelly) 7. Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman (Dewitt, Garrett) 8. RE: Craig and forms (Stovall, Craig) 9. ICHF Material (Bruce Sims) 10. Re: Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman (Ray) 11. Lok's (Brian Beach) 12. War Memorial in Seoul (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Lok's hapkido school To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net we can't forget that it said sifu on the pic....so we don't really know if he uses chinese terminology in class. even if he did...if it's his native tongue...hey all is fair. Jye Rick Clark wrote: While I am sure there is a large community of Chinese in Vancouver, and the instructor may be Chinese, when teaching a Korean art people "tend" to use either the Korean name or the English equal vent (if English is the native language of the country). For example in Ju-jitsu, Judo, Karate, Aikido I would expect that students to use the term Sensei. If I were to go into a Hung Gar, Xing Yi, Pakua, Tai Chi Chuan, school I would expect they would use Sifu. Likewise in a TKD or HKD school you would expect them to use Sa Bom Nim. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:16:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Jae Stulock Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Craig and forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All, This is my first time posting on this board. Ive been lurking for a week or two and have enjoyed all the posts. Thank you those that post video clips they are quite interesting and have kept me up late at night pouring over them. I would like to comment on Mr. Peters' statement: I recently switched academies (switching Sensi was a difficult decision) from a Royce Gracie school to a Hapkido school. We are having alot of fun at the new academy playing with the different styles. What Id like to mention is that in the brazilian system we would warm up by rolling on the mat with each other. Inevidably the matchups would become contests and the combatants would become tired. This is when we learned new/reviewed old technique so that the practitioners didnt have the muscle strength to "force" a technique. The real training begins when your muscles are fatigued. Thusly, the classes were two hours long, sometimes longer, and were really pretty grueling but quite effective at teaching a difficult system. Thanks again all, ~Jae George Peters wrote: Good Sir, Our org uses the forms as a conditioning tool and for many other things also. Just wished to comment on the fatigue thing: When a practictioner becomes tired, they become more relaxed and tend to work more efficiently, and for myself, this where I first started to move correctly. Respectfully, George _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:30:55 +0800 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sunmudo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > YEah I'm not really interested in the temple, I'm more interested in the martial monks. If you want to learn, stay a lot longer than just three days. -- mvg. Klaas Barends Dutch H.K.D Federation http://www.hapkido.nl/ International H.K.D Training Center http://www.sangmookwan.com/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 01:57:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Temples in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Temples are scattered throughout the ROK and the majority of the ones we visited were on mountaintops in the south part of the peninsula away from the larger cities. We had the opportunity to visit many temples in Korea and from an observers viewpoint and for the sake of discussion, I will classify them as 3 different types. First are the class A temples such as bulguksa http://www.bulguksa.or.kr/ with modern conveniences, paved parking lots, often and a gift shop. Very tourist driven. More at: http://www.buddhapia.com/buddhapi/eng/temple/korexp/html/ Second are the class B temples. A parking lot usually not paved and you have to hike a bit, and not so modern conveniences. Such as the one with the 2 famous carvings to the entrance of the cave that every Korean martial art claims a lineage with (can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. Anthony, and help?). I would say the sunmudo temple fit into this category easily. http://www.sunmudo.com/ Then you had the class C temples. They are not easy to find and difficult to get to. One we visited even pre-dated the Buddhist temples and such religions as Christianity and Buddhism. You will not find any tourists or gift shops. They even had a sword smith on the temple grounds and an Abbott who was the genuine article. Many of the class A and B temples have contact information on their websites. I would not mind visiting them again, but I would prefer to spend much more time in the class C temples. But finding where they are and then getting in is a different story. Please remember I am using this form of classification simply to demonstrate my perception. One interesting fellow I had the chance to spend several days with was what he described as a Buddhist sword monk. He was dresses as a common Korean Buddhist monk, but always carried a Japanese sword in a traditional Japanese soft cloth case. Instead of the shaved head, he had a ponytail. He was a friend of Master Han Jung Doo, who heads the WHGF, and was with us on our trip during the few days we were in Seoul. I think he was one of Dr. Kimm's students, but that is just a guess. What you are going to learn in Korea is not necessarily technique; as there are as many fine hapkidoin (insert any other KMA) in other countries such as the USA and Canada as there are in Korea. But the enjoyment is in learning the language and the culture. The same is true if your travel intent is religious in nature. But, as a Buddhist, I was a bit disappointed in the commercialism of the class A temples. Of course the highlights for me as a hapkidoin was not training in the Kidowhe or visiting the many temples; but visiting the grave of hapkido founder, Choi Young Sul and seeing the town of his birth. Just my thoughts and opinion. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND. www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:08:31 -0500 From: Dave To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Black eye... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Parents also need to be more aware and use some common sense. I think it was on another list where a parent wrote in asking if it was unusual for them to be forbidden to attend belt tests or "overnight training camps" that their children were involved in. Needless to say that many people, myself included, replied to her that she should grab her child and run, not walk, out of that school... Very troublesome... Dave Zapencki Stovall, Craig wrote: ><<>> > > > >I've said it before and I'll say it again...much in the same way that >predators follow the herds, molestors will often gravitate toward >vocations that give them access to the young and/or weak. This could >include daycare worker, teacher, coach, counselor, bus driver, and >(unfortunately) MA instructor. It's sad that you see so much of this. > > > >A male school teacher in my area of the country was just convicted of >molesting a pre-teen boy. Another school teacher actually walked into >the classroom while he was sodomizing the boy. He plea bargained down >to a 9-year sentence. 9 years. > > > >If only I were in charge... >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] 'combat' Hapkido Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:41:41 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I will interlineate my comments - see below ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Ross" > Mr. Kennelly, Sir, > My original post stated my 'limited exposure to Hapkido.' Never claimed > otherwise. There does seem to be any number of semi-pro and professional > charlatans in the Hapkido field, like all the other MA's. Agreed. > A long time ago, I heard Hapkido referred to as 'the old man's art' > since > it does NOT rely on strength, but rather technique. > My 'limited' understanding of Hapkido is that there is little or no > 'sport' application [ie tournaments, the Olympics, etc.], so I just have > to > wonder what makes 'combat' Hapkido different/more deadly or efficient from > 'Hapkido?' Does JP have some magic formula, 'secret scroll,' or is it just > marketing? Cause if there is some super-duper absolute pinnacle of > empty-hand > self-defense out there, sign me up! Quite condesending don't you think? Have you ever trained in Combat Hapkido? I will go back and ask my instructor why he hasn't shown me the secret scroll because I now feel cheated in my training. I'll bet on that secret scroll are the Hyungs. GM Pellegrini has chosen not to include Hyung in Combat Hapkido. I would comment more about the differences between traditional Hapkido and Combat Hapkido BUT I have never studied traditional Hapkido and am therefore unqualified to comment. I do own Dr. Kimm's Hapkido book as well as the GM West North Austin TKD Seminar DVD but that still does not qualify me to comment. > I also previously stated that the key was to practice a MA style long > enough to become proficient. But I have found that right next door to > 'combat' > Hapkido is Tibetan Gopher Tossing. In your opening statement you acknowledged limited exposure to Hapkido but now you feel knowledgeable enough about Combat Hapkido, which you have never studied, to compare it to a non-existent martial art? Get back to me on this subject when you can substantiate your claims with facts, ok? Tom Kennelly --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net.'" Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:06:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would very much like to wish Grandmaster Rudy W. Timmerman a Happy, Happy Birthday." >From ALL of us at DeWitt Martial Arts - Brainerd, MN., we sincerely hope you have a very special day today - Aug 17th. The very best to you Sir. Garrett --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:48:50 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Craig and forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Ah, that's a good point. A lot of people have a problem with too much tension and/or the inability to relax during practice. The setting in of fatigue sometimes helps those folks "let go" of the tension. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:50:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ICHF Material Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Tom: "....Please enlighten me on these Combat Hapkido styles you have trained in that teach the students to muscle their techniques....." For myself I would not say that ICHF actually "teaches" muscling, but that often this results because folks who are teaching have not be grounded in sound principles about how to use their body, how to impact the partners' body and how to do these things efficiently and effectively. This is not to say that there are NOT people who can't do this, only that I have never seen a concerted effort to improve on the manner in which material is taught at an organizational level. The result seems to be that ICHF produces mediocre practitioners and that competent practitioners seem to almost happen INSPITE of the organization not because of it. My sense is that had Pelligrini taken a more in-sightful approach to what he was doing instead of focusing on building an economic success he might have made a valuable contribution to the Hapkido arts. As it is, he seems to have produced just another McDochang chain, not unlike many others. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy B-Day!!! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Brian Beach Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:32:41 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Lok's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thomas Lok , Michael's teacher learned his Hapkido in Hong Kong were sifu was the native term. Even here in the DC area when we go out to eat at our favorite chinese place GM Kim is addressed as sifu. "Welcome sifu, table for 8?" On Aug 17, 2005, at 6:00 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > So from my point of view when you > mix up terms it can raise a red flag. As can multiple art, high dan rankings or founding your own system. Brian --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] War Memorial in Seoul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... I regret that this may not help Dr. Cwiertka, since she is in Europe, but for anyone in or near Seoul, there's an excellent exhibition at the War Memorial of Korea about life during and after the Korean War. Titled "Ahh! Eomeoni" ("Ahh, Mother"), it focuses on the human side of how families coped with wartime disruption and after, from the critical to the mundane. Of course, much of the burden fell to mothers. The exhibition includes a recreated refugee village, complete with period political posters and advertising, and even a typical public toilet. Also displayed are numerous products from that era, which anyone who was in Korea in the 60s and 70s will find very nostalgic. Many, I had forgotten. For that reason, I also recommend it for anyone working with modern Korean literature. It evokes the atmosphere and setting of the period. Opened in April, this special exhibition will end Aug. 31. Hours: Tues-Sun, 9:30 - 5. Closed Mondays. Info phone 02-793-1467/87. The War Memorial of Korea (Jeonjaeng Ginyeomgwan) is located just down the hill from the Yongsan army base. Subway lines 4 and 6, Samgakji Station. Dr. Cwiertka, exhibition catalogs were offered for sale, but I don't know the cost or how you could preview them. Norman Thorpe Adjunct Faculty Whitworth College --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest