Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:55:43 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #335 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Loks Hapkido (Ali Alnasser) 2. A nature park for Koreas' DMZ? (Dave) 3. RE: RE: Lok's hapkido school (Rick Clark) 4. Happy Birthday SJN (Braeswood Martial Arts) 5. Happy Birthday SJN (rich hodder) 6. KOREAN MARTIAL ART TITLES (Fred Gommels) 7. RE: ICHF Material (Stovall, Craig) 8. Lok's hapkido school (J R Hilland) 9. Choke outs (Ray) 10. RE: Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman (Thomas Gordon) 11. 'combat' hapkido & 'combat' TGT (Don Ross) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:41:23 -0700 From: Ali Alnasser To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Loks Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you look at his website you'll notice that he's catering to the Chinese community, more specifically to the Cantonese-speaking community. His video clips, for example, are narrated in Cantonese, which would be his native language since he's from Hong Kong. If he's doing business with the Cantonese community, what's the problem? There wouldn't be anyone complaining about his website if it was entirely in Chinese because none of us would be able to read it. I really don't see what the difference would be what title he uses. After all, in this country, some instructors who operate Korean martial arts schools don't use any Korean terms at all and others pronounce the terms so badly that they would essentially be unintelligible to a Korean speaker. Isn't making your art accessible to your students more important than titles? --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:46:38 -0500 From: Dave To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] A nature park for Koreas' DMZ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Found on Reuters... Dave Zapencki A nature park for Koreas' DMZ? ============================== By Jon Herskovitz       1 hour, 14 minutes ago Media mogul and conservationist Ted Turner wants to turn the heavily fortified Demilitarized Zone that divides the Korean peninsula into a peace park if the two Koreas become unified. The 248-km (154-mile) long and 4-km (2.5-mile) wide DMZ stretches from one end of the peninsula to the other. It has been a no man's land for over 50 years and because of that, the band of land has also become a wildlife sanctuary that is the home to some of the world's rarest birds as well as a variety of plant and animal life. "This is a project worthy of doing," Turner said on Wednesday at Dorasan Station, the last station in South Korea that government officials say will serve as the rail link with North Korea once tracks are connected and political hurdles allowing train traffic have been cleared. CNN founder Turner had just finished a two-day trip to North Korea where he advocated building the park and he also broached the idea with South Korean officials, organizers of the park said. Turner pledged to make an unspecified financial contribution to the park and organizers said it is their idea to have the two Koreas lead the way in laying plans for establishing the long and narrow nature preserve. The DMZ is home to several threatened and rare species of animal and plant life including the red-crown crane, a staple of Asian art, and the white-naped crane. The two are among the world's most endangered birds. The two Koreas have well over 1 million troops who face each other across the DMZ, but there has been virtually no human activity in almost all of the DMZ since it was established by the armistice that ended the 1950-1953 Korean War. The two Koreas are technically still at war because a peace treaty has not been reached. Parts of the DMZ were once littered with corpses due to the heavy fighting, but without human activity for more than half a century, nature has returned in abundance. In addition, the DMZ crosses mountains, prairies, swamps, lakes and tidal marshes, giving the area a large amount of biological diversity. According to figures compiled by environmentalists for South Korea's Gyeonggi Province, there are about 2,900 different plant species in the DMZ as well as about 70 different types of mammals and 320 different types of birds. In addition, there are tens of thousands of landmines and pieces of unexploded ordinance in the DMZ because of the heavy fighting during the war. There are also periodic explosions when animals such as a deer stumble into mine fields. Turner is one of the largest private landholders in the United States and has been an outspoken advocate of conservation. Turner said he hopes for peace on the peninsula and for the park to come to life once the two Koreas sign a peace treaty and are united. "You can't have a peace park without peace," Turner said. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:53:31 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Lok's hapkido school To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] > >we can't forget that it said sifu on the pic....so we don't >really know if he uses chinese terminology in class. even if >he did...if it's his native tongue...hey all is fair. > >Jye > > >Rick Clark wrote: >While I am sure there is a large community of Chinese in >Vancouver, and the instructor may be Chinese, when teaching a >Korean art people "tend" to use either the Korean name or the >English equal vent (if English is the native language of the >country). For example in Ju-jitsu, Judo, Karate, Aikido I >would expect that students to use the term Sensei. If I were >to go into a Hung Gar, Xing Yi, Pakua, Tai Chi Chuan, school I >would expect they would use Sifu. Likewise in a TKD or HKD >school you would expect them to use Sa Bom Nim. You are correct - you did ask an opinion on the web site. That is one thing that popped up in my mind. I have been involved in quite a few martial arts since I started back in 1962 and when I am in a Tai Chi Chuan class I will use Sifu if appropriate, Sa Bom Nim in a Korean style, and Sensei in the Japanese arts. Or if appropriate Mr., Mrs., Sir etc. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:57:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Birthday SJN Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy Day to you SJN and enjoy the 29th year again:) Kat --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "rich hodder" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:16:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Birthday SJN Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gm Timmermann, Here's hoping you have a great birthday...break out some Canadian and Coke...and enjoy the warmth of summer while you still have the chance. Rich --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Fred Gommels" To: "DOJANG DIGEST" Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:06:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KOREAN MARTIAL ART TITLES Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been training in the martial arts since 1973. For the past 7 years I have made a study of the Korean language my passion. I have been to Korea 5 times and am in contact with Korean friends and masters on a weekly basis in their native tongue. Through this study of the Korean language I have gained a better understanding of many commonly used martial arts terms. I have noticed that many martial artists are led to believe that the term “KwanJangNim” means master or grandmaster. In some martial arts circles today this title is used with such reverence as to keep us in awe of the great and almighty “KwanJangNim”. If you take a close look at the Korean language you’ll find the following information to be true. Kwan: is actually a suffix of the term “chae yook kwan” a common term in Korea used now days for “dojang”. Chae yook: means fitness, athletic training, or physical education Kwan is a common suffix for: “toh suh kwan” meaning library “pang muhl kwan” meaning museum “mee sul kwan” meaning fine art museum “Chae yook kwan” meaning fitness or athletic center, also martial arts school In this context Jang means director of a kwan. Kwan jang: as a verb means to take charge of or to manage. Kwan jang: as a noun translates to director or superintendent. Kwan jang: in the Korean language can be used as the title for the director of a library, a museum, or an art center, as well as the owner of a martial art school. Nim: is an added suffix for appropriate referral of respect. The idea that “kwanjang-nim” means master or grandmaster most likely comes from a common standard among martial artists in Korea. That standard is to own a martial arts school one must be a 4th Dan black belt and is then called a “kwanjang-nim”. The assumption is that kwanjang means master, when it truly means the owner/director of a martial arts school commonly referred to as a chae yook kwan (fitness center). Without owning a martial arts school, a 4th Dan and above would normally be referred to as a “sabom-nim”. This title is also given to someone who is a qualified instructor, master, teacher, or sports coach. OTHER TERMS & TITLES Haksaeng: term for student in general Sonseang-nim: teacher * general term for teacher. The equivalent to “sensei” in Japanese * respectful form of the word “you” Yudanja-nim: any holder of a black belt Sabom-nim: martial arts instructor (in Korea usually 4th Dan and above) Kwan jang-nim: owner of a martial arts school * kwan – suffix of common term for martial arts school Chae yook “kwan” (literally: fitness center) * jang - a suffix term meaning head, chief, or director of * nim - a respectful suffix added to a person’s title Chong kwan jang-nim: means the head or chief Kwan jang, who oversees other school owners. * Chong in this context means whole, general, or overall Hae jang-nim: president or head of an association. Hae is the shortened version of Hyup Hae meaning association. Suseung-nim: This term is used by some Koreans to refer to a their martial arts teacher as their master instructor. This term refers to the teacher-pupil and master-disciple relationship in other areas as well. Dojang: traditional term for martial arts training hall or gym. Fredrick J. Gommels Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. KOREA / USA SIMMUDO ASSOCIATION 2849 S. Broadway Rochester MN 55904 507-281-4335 www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:36:24 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: ICHF Material Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I'll make a deal with you, Bruce. If you hold that can of worms I'll run get the can opener...;) I'm going to try and approach this subject from as logical a standpoint as I can. I know we've run the timelines on "JP" many times before. Suffice it to say, that I have in my possession a copy of TKDTimes from the late 80's with a huge cover story on JP, and at that time he was a high ranking TKD practitioner. No mention or documentation of Hapkido training. Ironically enough, the thrust of the article was JP's disillusionment over the fact that TKD as a whole was not adequately addressing the subject of self-defense. I think right there we can see the roots of his movement into Hapkido and other arts that can claim a stronger self-defense orientation. At any rate, I think we can all agree that this man did not begin his journey into Hapkido until at least the late 80's. Here we are, less than 20 years later, and his website claims more than 250 affiliate Hapkido schools worldwide. That seems like a bit of a rush to me. I can buy the fact that the guy might be a high ranking and knowledgable Hapkido player after 15 to 20 years in the art. I cannot buy the fact that you could have developed 250+ competent instructors underneath you during the same time that you were undertaking your own prime "learning years" within the art. Seems to me that if people are making the claim that "quality control" has been an issue then one only has to look at his training record and the explosive growth of his organization to bolster that fact. It don't add up. I'm open to the fact that JP himself might be the biggest and baddest Hapkido player to ever walk the planet. However, my gut feel is that if I joined any one of his 250 affiliate schools it would be a little "hit or miss" as to the quality of instruction that I received for my dollar. Now where did I put my flame retardant underoos? --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:41:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lok's hapkido school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I also found that very odd the first time I encounter such a thing around 87. They called the art taekwondo, but the uniform was a red and blue gi (dogi), not a dobok, and the school was a dojo not a dojang. After watching a class though, it appeared to be some form of American point style sport karate and had nothing to do with taekwondo except for the Korean flag hanging next to the American flag. After I informed him that his Korean flag was hung backwards, I left... Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 10:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Choke outs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Girl, 15, Dies Playing 'Pass-Out Game' Tuesday, August 16, 2005 LAWRENCE, Kan. A teenager found hanging from a dresser drawer with a coated bicycle chain lock around her neck apparently died while playing the "pass-out game," the girl's parents said. Kimberly Wilson, a 15-year-old student at Veritas Christian School in Lawrence, died last week. Her parents, Tim and Carol Wilson, began discussing the details of her death Monday because they wanted other parents to be aware of the dangers of playing the choking game, which cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain. Those who play achieve a type of "high," they said. "We are very close to our children, and we did not know this was going on," Tim Wilson said Monday. "There were no outward signs. This isn't like drugs or alcohol use, which a parent should be able to detect. "We want parents to know this is out there." The game has been in the news in recent weeks. Just last month, a 10-year-old Idaho boy was found dead, hanging from a tree. Authorities said he apparently died while trying to get high by playing the choking game. The case was similar to that three months ago in the Idaho town of Nampa, where 13-year-old Chelsea Dunn was found dead after apparently hanging herself in her closet. Tami Radohl, a Bert Nash Community Mental Health Center counselor at Southwest Junior High School in Lawrence, said the behavior is not uncommon. "This is going on in every junior high in Lawrence," Radohl said. Usually, the game involves one person causing another to pass out and, seconds later, reviving the unconscious peer. "It's like anything else that creates a high or a buzz; it can lead to addictive behavior," said Dr. Paul Loney, an emergency room physician at Lawrence Memorial Hospital. When addiction reaches the point of passing out alone, Loney said, "they're in deep trouble." Tim Wilson said his daughter did not commit suicide. He said the family has reason to believe Kimberly had played the choking game for at least a year, maybe two. "She had a history of playing this game," Wilson said. "Her death was accidental." --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Happy Birthday GM Timmerman Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:43:42 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Grandmaster Timmerman, Happy Birthday from all of us at Gordon Martial Arts. See you in a few weeks for the seminar! Warm regards, Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:18:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] 'combat' hapkido & 'combat' TGT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Kennelly, Sir, I have repeatedly acknowledged my limited exposure to Hapkido, yet never said that 'combat' hapkido wasn't a martial art. You said that my 'combat' Tibetan Gopher Tossing was a non-existant MA. Is that because: -I don't take out full page ads monthly in Black Belt magazine and TKD Times? -I self-promoted myself to Grand Exalted Poohbah? - I created a MA from a hodge-podge of techniques from other MA's? -I bastardized, repackaged, and repriced an existing MA? - I only added the 'combat' prefix to an existing MA as a marketing ploy? [And yes, vanilla TGT does exist, even has its own web site, or used to]. So what is a martial art? No condesencion intended, but I would like to hear what makes 'combat' hapkido different or more efficient than 'regular' hapkido, accepting that you haven't studied 'regular' hapkido. I never studied Kung Fu or Gracie grappling, but I can describe generally how MY art [and I don't mean TGT either] differs and is more effective for my self defense. A thread for the whole list: what IS a martial art? pil seung, Don Ross In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use. - Achille Marozzo, 1536 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest