Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:10:22 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #344 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: GM In Sun Seo (tkdtom) 2. Re: Connelly Comments - Kennelly's comments (tkdtom) 3. Re making a living from MA (Beungood8@aol.com) 4. Master Hilland's Injury (Lois Knorr) 5. Moo Duk Kwan Trademark (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 6. Re: Moo Duk Kwan Trademark (Ray) 7. Re: John Pellegrini Bashing (jakskru) (Ray) (foxxee) 8. Re: hapkido scrutiny (jakskru) 9. Re: Re: JP Scrutiny (jakskru) 10. Re: Re: JP Scrutiny (jakskru) 11. Re: UFC (jakskru) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "tkdtom" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM In Sun Seo Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:53:40 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for the info. Let me make just a few comments below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. R. West" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:41 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] GM In Sun Seo > Tom wrote: > "Maybe I am making an assumption here but when I attended a GM Seo seminar > they were performing Hyung. I welcome enlightenment on this topic". > > First off, GM Seo is most certainly NOT a Hapkido man, but rather Kuk Sool > Won, and KSW has forms, Hapkido (traditionally) does not.... Excellent answer. I did not know this. BTW I should mention that it was not GM P that told me he eliminated Hyung in CH but a moderately high ranking TKD instructor turned CH student. > Secondly: GM Seo > has stated that he is NOT Mr. Pellegrini's teacher. My only reference to GM Seo was that I attended one of his seminars and not that GM P was his student. Did I give that impression, I hope not because frankly I do not know. > Thirdly: Like Master > Hilland, I have viewed Mr. Pellegrini's tapes, and his motion is very > sub-par, especially for someone that has been doing what he does for > almost > 20 years. I agree with the idea of making a system of self defense > techniques available for members of the MA community that are more > kick-punch oriented, but I would have chosen a different name. I have > seen > Mr. Pellegrini and his students claim that others, namely Dr. Kimm, have > done precisely the same thing, that is, change things up and reorganize. > The obvious difference here is that Dr. Kimm was a black belt for 41 years > when he formed Hanmudo in 1989......J. R. West www.hapkido.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "tkdtom" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Connelly Comments - Kennelly's comments Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:04:37 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow there fella. (just kidding). My name is Kennelly and I only bring that up because there is a high ranking Yudo martial artist named Connelly, or something like that and I do not want to be confused with him? Again, see my comments below. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:34 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Connelly Comments > Mr. Connelly - > > I think you are very well thought out in your arguments and demeanor. > > Just something to think about. If you want specifics and such as you > indicated to Mr. Hilland, it would then become JP bashing if the evidence > would show something negative to the contrary. > > It would probably just be suffice it to say that many individuals have had > a variety of dealings with him that are completely antithetical to what > you have experienced. It is possible that you are right and a majority of > people outside of the ICHF are wrong. However, it is also very possible > that his history may be pot-marked with purchased rank and "extremely" > liberal time-in-grade requirements. I understand what are saying here but, being mitpicky, you cannot state "a majority of people outside of the ICHF are wrong" because you could never substantiate that statement as fact. > > Although I noted from an earlier post that you mentioned your long > involvement with him and how positive it was and how you found him, you > must understand that a variety of people over the last 10-15 years have > had completely the opposite reaction. Just to clarify, my long term involvement with ICHF is through one of GM P's instructors and not with GM P himself. I have only encountered GM P in seminars. Again I must state that GM P has credibility for me because I consider my ICHF instructor to be so good. > > Not sure what this means, but you must give this at least some attention. > This means something significant, even if it doesn't mean what you think > we are all alluding to. > > Respectfully, > > Jeff > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:20:15 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re making a living from MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 8/24/2005 1:13:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Jack, you hit it on the head with one exception: "if any martial arts instructor is making a living or a profit off of teaching, he is in it for the money...plain and simple." Can't say I agree with that part. Jere , I agree with you. I cut and pasted that statement and then wrote my reply behind it with out hitting the space bar (sore wrists...) ;-) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:49:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Lois Knorr To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Hilland's Injury Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Hilland, I read with concern your posting that 'due to a recently injury it is difficult for me to type one handed'. I thought the injury was in the nature of a sprained wrist, etc. Your later posting that the injury was 'the partial amputation of my ki finger on my dominant hand' more clearly reflects the seriousness of your injury. I add my best wishes to you for a speedy recovery and hope that your fret boards will soon be fretting once more J. I look forward to seeing you in Jackson. You injury brings up an interesting question – how much effect does scar tissue (and loss of tissue) have on the flow of ki? Thank you to all ‘senior’ members on this board who are so willing to share their knowledge and experience with us ‘juniors’. Lois --------------------------------- Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:50:36 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Trademark Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Ray for the list on Moo Duk Kwan name trademark This type of action is how the Moo Duk Kwan can stay standarized. Without it, anyone can teach under the name Moo Duk Kwan and teach their own deluted versions. I see it all the time in TKD. Its hard to find two TKD schools that teach exactly alike anywhere, but I have trained with people from England, Korea, Mexico, Greece, Argintina, France, Belgium, Italy, all members of the World Moo Duk Kwan. They all use the same terminology, teach the same marterial at the same rank levels, and when we all come together at some international event. It is like we all train at the same school. People have left the Moo Duk Kwan, lead by Grandmaster Hwang Kee (Grandmaster HC Hwang now) and started their own organizations using names like TKD MDK, or TSD MDK, or even SBD but they use a simular patches, and teach almost the same martial. The Moo Duk Kwan has been fighting this since the TKD movement in the late 1950's and 1960's. If other styles or systems want to regulate or standardize their name and material they will have to lay claim to their identity JC Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Moo Duk Kwan Trademark To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 15:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Thanks Ray for the list on Moo Duk Kwan name trademark > > This type of action is how the Moo Duk Kwan can stay standarized. Without it, > anyone can teach under the name Moo Duk Kwan and teach their own deluted > versions. I know we probably differ on this point, but... MDK is not a style, it is a lineage, a family, all be it a disfunctional one. Schools do not teach MDK, they teach TSD MDK or SBD MDK or TKD MDK. The first part being the style, the second part showing their lineage, their family, showing respect to Hwang Kee. You can't standardize a lineage, it is either there or it isn't... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:23:45 -0500 From: foxxee To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: John Pellegrini Bashing (jakskru) (Ray) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm glad someone else sees through this guy's armor. Donna > >-- __--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: Ray >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] John Pellegrini Bashing (jakskru) >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:42:49 -0700 (PDT) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >I'm back home again in sunny California after almost a month 'back East'... > >As someone pointed out, one place that Mr. P screwed up, imho, is in calling >his new creation "Hapkido". And then, of course, going on to claim that >he is the Father of Modern Hapkido. > >If someone wants to create a new art form... ok, fine. But don't attempt to >use the name of a martial art that is already well defined, well known, and >with many legit high ranking (but not 9th Dan) Masters. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido scrutiny Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:32:23 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "J R Hilland" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:10 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido scrutiny > Jack, you hit it on the head with one exception: "if any martial arts > instructor is making a living or a profit off of teaching, he is in it for > the money...plain and simple." Can't say I agree with that part. I know > many (and you do to) that took a pay cut to teach full time for the joy of > the art or simply do not take advantage of their students when they very > easily could. Providing a 'value added service' and feeding your family is a > lot different than selling dan rank to the highest bidder. we must agree to disagree then...if you are making a living or profit off of something, then IMHO you are in it first for the money, even if you love the thing that you do....its just that some are ONLY in it for the money...more power to all who are not taking advantage, but rather helping and fostering...i know i appreciate that and i specifically look for that in a teacher. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: JP Scrutiny Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:40:52 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hey now, i stated that i wasnt defending anyone or anything with my post, just trying to get people to use the old noodle before starting to talk about someone or something...i feel we will all be better served discussing relavent issues, like training, interpretation, conditioning, injury prevention/rehab, and OTHER relevant topics besides what someone else is doing or not doing. the people talked about like JP and Capt. Rick Love are not here on this list anyway (though i have heard inuendo that RL checks the posts from time to time)....so its kind of like talking behind their back, IMHO. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: JP Scrutiny > In a message dated 8/21/2005 7:05:50 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes:> There is a big difference between the pioneers who "streamlined" Aikijujitsu > and JP, they Mastered a system and adapted what they learned or made it > better suited for their current needs. They also could walk the walk and talk > the talk due in part to HARD training and many years spent training in austere > conditions, not engaged in extremeis photo Ops with people they spent a few > hours watching training from the side lines in a suit sans dobuk or sweat. > Most of the people commenting on JP were in WHF and saw his antics and skill > level and his exodus only to become a 10th Dan of his own system after coming > into the organization a 2nd or 3rd dAN. lol, need to do is watch his basic > movement on any of his techniques on any of his tapes to know all you need to > know about him. FWIW. > > Jacko --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: JP Scrutiny Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:42:47 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just wondered if your statements applied to what bruce lee did? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: JP Scrutiny > There is a big difference between the pioneers who "streamlined" Aikijujitsu > and JP, they Mastered a system and adapted what they learned or made it > better suited for their current needs. They also could walk the walk and talk > the talk due in part to HARD training and many years spent training in austere > conditions, not engaged in extremeis photo Ops with people they spent a few > hours watching training from the side lines in a suit sans dobuk or sweat. > Most of the people commenting on JP were in WHF and saw his antics and skill > level and his exodus only to become a 10th Dan of his own system after coming > into the organization a 2nd or 3rd dAN. lol, need to do is watch his basic > movement on any of his techniques on any of his tapes to know all you need to > know about him. FWIW. > > Jacko > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] UFC Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 18:45:50 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net who v. who? i have seen a striker beat a wrestler many times in ufc and in pride. it seems to be happening more lately than earlier on. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] UFC > Hey everyone, I just watched the UFC last night and saw something refreshing...a striker winning against a wrestler. The striker was able to keep the wrestler away from him using solid striking techniques and good footwork. > > Jye > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest