Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 05:48:57 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #346 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: hapkido (Raymond Navarro) 2. Re:Splits (Tony McDonald) 3. Flow of Ki? - Was - Master Hilland's Injury (Rick Clark) 4. michael rose (pranab banik) 5. ki (J R Hilland) 6. HapKiDo & Hyung (fabrice carfantan) 7. One word per day: Taekwondo (Ray) 8. Jere's Thoughts (Bruce Sims) 9. Common Terms (Bruce Sims) 10. Government control of martial arts (tkdsid@aol.com) 11. Hapkido Hyung (Bruce Sims) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net   Hi and be blessed JR Hilland and same to all that read this. I can say that I remember when J Peligrini started publishing first in the TaeKwonDo Times as a metter of fact I acn remember about him this from back then. He was a 4th Dan in TKD and a #rd Dan in HapKiDo under a Korean Grand master that I do not recall the name right now but beleive was Master Hwang from NY and JP wanted to go up in rank but this korean master regected him to be ranked new rank and after that JP went into seminas that WHF Grand Master Myung gave for a year or so and then something hapened that I am not sure since JP was all ready suposedlly in partnership with this Organization and then I heard that he went to Korea and met Master Choi. For as little time that he was gone to korea even if it would have been ther in Korea for a couple of years in his return he was soposedlly now/then a high Dan rank, 7th Dan. How could this be. Besides he JP mentioning that he was one of the first non korean person to be under GrandMaster Choi, YongSul ??? You can say that the rest is history HAP Ramon Navarro, HapKiDo Sabom from the country of Panama for 29 years. 7. hapkido (J R Hilland) Message: 7 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 11:55:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Kennelly: I understand that you are new to posting on this forum, but there is never a need for such hostility. My comments were generic about hapkido and the martial arts in general. I NEVER said anything about you. I did not use any specific names such as the ICHF as there are MANY organizations with an agenda other than prompting the traditional art of hapkido. Very sad really. Which is what, in my opinion, a good organization ONLY does. I was in taekwondo for over 25 years till hapkido took over my life and I have spent 31 years as a hapkidoin. So I can say without a doubt that there are many taekwondo instructors, some on this list, that teach taekwondo as a COMPLETE self defense martial art. That is a fact and they are VERY good at it. I am sorry your experience in taekwondo was not that rewarding. As far as 'combat' hapkido, if I was promoted as fast as the founder of your organization I would have been his rank before he got his honorary chodan. I have never met them man, but after viewing one of his tapes once, I can only say that I was disappointed, I won't go into details. With very few exceptions, there are no forms in traditional hapkido. So why would he eliminate what is not there? I was not attempting a smear campaign, I am not sure where you pulled that one from as I was simply stating facts, not even about any specific martial art or organization. Changing what I said does not make it different. So I do not understand your hostility or how it relates to that comment. Take head from my teachers quote? I can only assume that is yet another attempt at an insult. But if you knew my time in rank and value of time in rank (just look in the DD archives) you would not have said such a statement. I do have respect for many of the ICHF members and there are some talented ones. But traditional hapkido is not a commodity it is a path, a way of life. It does make me sad when traditional mudo is bastardized in any form or fashion, and it should. I am very sorry that you feel hostile during a discussion of opinions and facts, but please don't feel that way. As Ray stated: "Fortunately I do not believe there has been any bashing what-so-ever of JP. Just an open and honest exchange of information.". I feel the same way. I do not feel that trying to fix what is not broken is useful, as traditional hapkido is the greatest thing since sliced bread, in my opinion. But if you are happy in his organization, then I am happy for you. Please do not reply to this message as this forum is not a place for such hostility as I will not respond and due to a recently injury it is difficult for me to type one handed. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.hapkidoselfdefense.com   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Tony McDonald" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Splits Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:20:18 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well my friend here's my advice, one drink lots-o-water (duh) two, do something called negative splits, its when you take three chairs with one foot on each then the third in front of you so you can lower yourself to your liking, I don't recommend using only 2 chairs because it can be incredibly painful (personal experience x.x) and third, don't rush it because not everyone can stretch like Bruce Lee in the first week ~Tony [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of Emoticon1.gif] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:22:37 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Flow of Ki? - Was - Master Hilland's Injury Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Lois, >You injury brings up an interesting question - how much effect does scar tissue (and loss of tissue) have on the flow of ki? I would be interested I seeing someone prove that Ki exists. The Amazing Randi has an offer of 1 million dollars for anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. For information see: http://www.randi.org/research/faq.html If anyone knows someone who can demonstrate Ki in such a way that could prove for us Ki does exist you might want to point them toward this site. Heck they could be a million dollars richer and they could buy your dinner at a really nice restaurant. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "pranab banik" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:25:50 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] michael rose Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net just a quick sad note to everyone concerned. Master Michael Rose a long time student of Do ju nim Ji passe away monday (8/22) of a massive heart attack. his funeral will be at pacific grove, ca this saturday. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 01:55:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Louis: I am glad to hear that you will be flying in from Canada to Jackson and I look forward to seeing you again. As far as your question: “how much effect does scar tissue (and loss of tissue) have on the flow of ki?” I will have to say that I don’t think it would change anything. Ki is not static; the flow of ki doesn't stop at the end of the body. It continues indefinitely. In application, when ki is extended through a technique, this extension does not stop with the body, but continues through space. This is one of the MANY reasons hapkidoin extend the ki finger during the execution of technique. It is also why the practice of a 'ki hand' is such an integrated part of hapkido. If the flow of ki ending with our skin, I think it would be amplified in ones balance and center. A good example is our friend, Master Timmerman. I have seen him perform a technique, obviously in great pain from his back injury (and subsequent scar tissue), but still possessing the ki one would expect of a hapkidoin with his years of experience and skill in technique. There is a fellow by the name of John Stevens, a aikido teacher, and a Buddhist priest, who has written a few very good books on the subject that I would recommend, although I do not know if they are still in print. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "fabrice carfantan" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] HapKiDo & Hyung Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 14:17:52 +0200 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Does anyone know about Grand Master Kim Duk Hin (Duk Moo Kwan Hapkido)? He came in Europe 10 years ago to teach Hapkido. He is closed with Kim Jin Pal. Thanks Fabrice --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 05:24:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] One word per day: Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Beijing is getting ready for 2008 with this regular feature at http://en.beijing-2008.org. Today's word is Taekwondo. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com Taekwondo Olympic sport since 2000. Various Korean forms of martial arts have existed but in the early 20th century, taekwondo became the dominant form. In 1955 a group of Korean martial arts leaders chose taekwondo as the definitive Korean martial art in an attempt to promote its development internationally. In 1973, the Korean government recognised the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) as the legitimate governing body of the sport, and the first World Championships were held in that year. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 05:54:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jere's Thoughts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....There are many dojang and organizations that simply do not play well with others; for lack of a better term, and you would think with the advent of the Internet this would have disappeared, but it did not....(clip) ..... But if you were never taught that no matter how long you have been teaching that you are a student first and you should learn more about your art and improve your technique at every given opportunity; and that your legacy should be nothing but the promotion of the art that you spent a life time studying, you are going to end up with an agenda that could even be detrimental to the art......." Dear Jere: Two very excellent points!! In the Yon Mu Kwan we are are not only encouraged but obligated to press on with developing the Hapkido arts. GM Myung puts our feet on the path and coaches our first baby steps, but we are expected to learn to walk, then jog and then run. I mention this because you post hit two nerves for me in this regard. One is that I had much higher expectations for the Internet in pulling KMA/Hapkido practitioners together and serving as a medium for the exchange of information. Not that information is NOT exchanged at all, but only that I am truely disappointed at the quality. Rather than be a new venue for talking AROUND politics and personalities it seems as though the Internet has only perpetuated, maybe exaccerbated the situation, yes? The other issue is that whether there is an Internet or not, the Hapkido arts have still failed to produce a venue through which modification can be shared with the community at large. Putting to one side the questions like, whether there SHOULD be change, who is empowered to make it and under what circumstances, I think if we are honest with ourselves we know that slow and reflective change is part of our art. Also putting to one side the lack of commonalities of technique, philosophy and goals, I believe we are still mandated to to strive towards setting sound foundations from which change can be introduced in a considered way. Thanks for a great post. I hope it encouraged some reflection in others the way it tickled some in me. BTW: Just a side note about an earlier post I made regarding Breathing in Hapkido. I have posted the "8 Pieces of Brocade" (C. "Ba Duan Jin; K. "Moo Pal Dan Kum") on my website. Most people will recognize most of the breathing methods, though, as always with these various exercises and drills our approach to these methods is just a tad different. Feel free to copy, download, comment etc etc. URL: www.midwesthapkido.com Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:05:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Common Terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....Bruce, can you name a larger more popular art that does do that?...." Dear Ray: As I was writing my post I had in mind many groups who, despite differences still share common terminology. For instance, in the Aikido arts, regardless of affiliation "ikkyo" is still "ikkyo". In the Karate arts "mae geri" is still mae geri. In the Judo arts, "osoto gari" is still "osoto gari". In the Hapkido arts some versions don't even name the technique but just give it a number, while others identify the technique according to its body part and still others according to its effect on the partner. I think the same can be said for various principles. As Jere pointed out there are still actually people who eschew principle such as "balance breaking", while yet others, while including the principles have varied opinions on what those principles are and how they are used. To my way of thinking, if one compromises a persons' balance its not as though there are 5 separate experiences here, though there might be 5 different methods for accomplishing this, yes? Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:12:51 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Government control of martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Colleagues, So that you know it's not wind that's blowing idly...The Better Business Bureau WAS contacted regarding the Queens Master as well as the Chubby Wannabee. Guess what? They said that inasmuch as Martial Arts is not licensed such as a gym or boxing, they had no real standing in this matter. Wait!!! I contacted the Attorney General and he said,"This is a consumer matter and you must sue" I did that but it is costly and takes time..I did win my case however. I contacted the Kukkiwon with no response. Bottom line? People that are honest should not fear regualtion. The other point...martial arts is one of the few areas that are not regulated...it bloody well ought to be. When one considers the amount of fraud, stealing, lieing and cheating that you can find everywhere its time that we did something creative. To simply say its all on us is callous. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:13:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "......Maybe I am making an assumption here but when I attended a GM Seo seminar > they were performing Hyung. I welcome enlightenment on this topic. How > many folks have Hyung as part of their Hapkido program....." In the Yon Mu Kwan we have 5 hyung which we constructed by Myung, Kwang Sik for emptyhand work. In addition there is a hyung for the dan bong and three for the jang bong. For my students, as part of my responsibilities to the kwan to which I belong there is always research into hyung, and for my part I push on the Chinese rather than the Japanese side of the Hapkido arts. The result is that we do the 8 Pieces of Brocade, and TAM TUI 12 and currently I am working on Wu SONG BREAKS MANACLES only because I am intrigued by the use of the body for S-D while the hands are restrained. As far as our sword material goes, I long ago exceeded the introductory material of GM Myung. Currently there are a constellation of 5 sword hyung culminating in the signature form for HwaRang Kum Bup. There are also a series of 2 man "one-steps" and a challanging long 2-man form. There are also forms for all of the five Korean sword architectures. Conclusion? I'd say that the Hapkido arts have forms and have had them for quite a while. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest