Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:13:53 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #349 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Government control of martial arts (Jye nigma) 2. Tae Kwon Do's evolution (Jye nigma) 3. TKD instructor (Jye nigma) 4. Re: Master Hilland's Injury (Jye nigma) 5. Mongolian Arts influence Korean MA (Jye nigma) 6. RE: Hapkido Cooking (Stovall, Craig) 7. hapkido and bashing (Eric Hotmail) 8. Grandmaster Timmerman (Thomas Gordon) 9. Re: Going up in rank fast (Klaas Barends) 10. Re: Does ki exist? (Klaas Barends) 11. Hapkido Cooking (Don Kirsch) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:21:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Government control of martial arts To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well when one goes after a martial art school that has done them wrong...one has to be creative. Now since the Martial Arts aren't licensed, I would go after it as what it is a business. Believe it or not, word of mouth still has power. If the agencies you went to don't help then make it your business to expose the wrong doers...you know how? the media! I found that the media is like a double edged sword....it can make you famous or tear you to shreds! Most news stations and newspapers has people who do investigative reporting. Get your facts together and fill those people in on the matter, news is always sought after especially dirt. If a business promises to give you something and they don't deliver sounds like false advertisement to me. Like a lawyer told me, " the first bite is always free" but you can stop it from happening to someone else. Jye tkdsid@aol.com wrote: Dear Colleagues, So that you know it's not wind that's blowing idly...The Better Business Bureau WAS contacted regarding the Queens Master as well as the Chubby Wannabee. Guess what? They said that inasmuch as Martial Arts is not licensed such as a gym or boxing, they had no real standing in this matter. Wait!!! I contacted the Attorney General and he said,"This is a consumer matter and you must sue" I did that but it is costly and takes time..I did win my case however. I contacted the Kukkiwon with no response. Bottom line? People that are honest should not fear regualtion. The other point...martial arts is one of the few areas that are not regulated...it bloody well ought to be. When one considers the amount of fraud, stealing, lieing and cheating that you can find everywhere its time that we did something creative. To simply say its all on us is callous. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:28:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do's evolution Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was watching a documentary where a TKd instructor made the comment that when he started TKD there weren't all the kicks there are today such as double kicks, flying kicks, jumping spinning kicks, etc. so I am wondering what's next for TKD? What would you all like to see next occur in the evolution of TKD? Jye __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:34:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD instructor Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi does anyone know or know of a TKD instructor named Ray Poole from Brookfield Connecticut? He has 3 grown children one of his kid's name is Raymond Poole. I think he branched off from Grandmaster Hwang (from CT also). I have lost contact with him, and he was a really good teacher and nice guy. His school's name was of course...Poole's Academy. Jye --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:49:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Master Hilland's Injury To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From my understanding there are many illustrations of chi/ki/qi energy. the first is like that of electricity. where like electricity it is unseen yet can produce heat and can travel through objects. Now I like that illustration for delivering a strike with chi energy. But then you have those who believe in what is called kung jing or jing kung something like that where if you put something across the room they can use their chi to strike it...nah I don't believe in that...but one has to wonder...if chi can be release from your body via a strike into another's body to damage a certain target as in meridians or internal organs, then why couldn't one do it without something like a body in front of it? I'd have to see it to believe it...and then if I did see it I'd blame it on demonic powers...lol. the other illustration is like a tire. by itself the tire is somewhat flimsy, and somewhat heavy, then when filled with air it's heavy, solid and protects the tire via pressure. I like this illustration also. finally you have this one that the brothers over at blacktaoist.com came up with, chi is simply mind intent. No crystals and granola, it's intense mental focus mix with intent. I can understand their thought because the critical part of harnessing and moving chi is the mind. But to me as far as protecting the body I don't think it matters if you have scar tissue or are missing a limb the chi will work in what you have. *The only time I'd be concerned with something obstructing the flow of chi would be with a problem with the lungs, or chi blockages. Jye Lois Knorr wrote: You injury brings up an interesting question – how much effect does scar tissue (and loss of tissue) have on the flow of ki? --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 13:09:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mongolian Arts influence Korean MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My net went down as I tried to send this so if you get 2 copies sorry. I was wondering what are some of the Mongolian influenced Korean Martial arts? Jye __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:42:54 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido Cooking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Your point is taken but even in this it's hard to make that kind of generalization. Where I come from a frying pan is often called a "skillet" and my grandmother always talked about the "oven" instead of the stove. Then again, for some people the "stove" is the whole thing, and for others the "stove" is just the top part where you have the burners (but some people call them "eyes" instead of burners). When I was growing up we had a "commode", and Archie Bunker had a "toilet" (or a "turlet" as he pronounced it). One time I called the plumber to come fix the toilet (or turlet), and when he showed up he asked me, "so you're having problems with your water closet"? I think you get my drift. Even in life's simplest things we will have different terms and names. To take an example from martial arts...is it a "Kimura", an "Ude Garami", a "Shoulder Lock", a "Top Wrist Lock", an "entangled arm lock", an "Americana", or a "Chickenwing"? All or none of these? I know at least five different grips for that lock from a side mount position (or a "lateral press", or a "cross mount", or the "cross sides"). Is each one a different technique when the grip changes? Does it need a different name? Is it different if I do it from a standing position? What about from the bottom scissor position (or the "guard", or "dojime")? Is there REALLY a Korean version of this technique, and a Japanese version, and a Brazilian version? Or, are these just artificial distinctions constructed in the human mind? I have worked with a lot of different people, and language has NEVER been a barrier to sharing and learning. As long as you have people who understand the underlying principles of techniques, then you will be able to share, learn, and improve. The name of the technique is NOT the technique. The name is just a means to make mental associations. The nations of the world could come to an agreement to forever refer to the straight armbar as a "juji-gatame", but it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever. People would not suddenly and miraculously understand the correct underlying principles just because we now have a common terminology. In fact, people are coming together everyday and learning the correct principles oftentimes WITHOUT the "advantages" of a common language. The term is NOT the technique. The underlying physical and anatomical PRINCIPLES are the technique. I know a lot of people get off on the administrative side of the art, and I encourage them to work towards a common language, reconstruct history, establish universal codes of etiquette, and argue over technical standards. Just don't be pissed because everyone doesn't jump on the bandwagon. If you're like me, it's hard enough to fit the actual PRACTICE of martial arts into one's life, much less fret over the administrative details. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Eric Hotmail" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido and bashing Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:51:35 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Unfortunately, no country is immune to those with 'paper' who obtained it >> without earning the rank or bothering to really learn the finer details >> of >> the art, or the art itself for that matter. >> Unfortunately, no country is immune to those with 'paper' who obtained it >> without earning the rank or bothering to really learn the finer details >> of the art, or the art itself for that matter. > You were doing so well but then the smear campaign had to start. Hi ! I was In Korea when GM In Sun Seo presented "papers" to several persons on the trip to Korea April 2004. As the question has been dropped once again on the table, if GM Seo feels strongly enough to sign and issue the "PAPERS" for one person, shouldn't you then also question the papers he issued to others or do you feel that GM In Sun Seo has enough standing in the community to know what he is doing? Also if the conjecture that people can "buy" GM In Sun Seo is being made than shame on you. I have not been able to buy my "papers" from GM In Sun Seo or any one else, and I don't know anyone else that has. There are some members on this list who have been promoted by GM In Sun Seo and to smear them because you have a personal dislike for another personis not so right either. The smoke has cleared several times and there is still a balance and people are still standing. So what is "real" Hapkido the stuff GM Choi was teaching???? If so then no one is doing the "real" thing as the "Real Man" has unfortunatley passed along. So come on guys don't we have better things to do with our time than argue who's got the better equipment in our jockey shorts or who can pee further with it. Its starting to sound like my daddies bigger than your daddie!! --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:20:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grandmaster Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello DDers, Grandmaster Timmerman arrived about 9:30PM (CST) this evening for our seminar this Saturday. He asked that thank everyone on his behalf for the birthday greetings. He's been away from his computer and will be for several more days. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Klaas Barends Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:14:57 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Going up in rank fast Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > For as little time that he was gone to korea even if > it would have been ther in Korea for a couple of years in his > return he > was soposedlly now/then a high Dan rank, 7th Dan. How could this be. We all know those masters who seem to train very hard on the airplane from Korea to their country. Because in the 10-12 hour flight they go up at least a dan or three. Back in the seventies one might have argued that they took the boat, so they had the change to practice for a few weeks on their boattrip. This is not only true for non-Koreans, a lot of Korean 'masters' left Korea maybe as a 2nd or 3rd dan and were 5 or 6th dan on arrival at the airport. It is amazing what training in a airplane can do to your skills :-) Need a dan? Go to the automatic dan generator: :-) http://www.hapkido.nl/?mode=dancert -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Klaas Barends Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 16:23:13 +0900 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Does ki exist? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I would be interested I seeing someone prove that Ki exists. Wether ki exists or not, it not important. (to me it isn't) The theory of ki is a working-theory. That means that we can explain a certain feeling we have which we can not (yet) explain with regular science. Or once we can explain the feeling and the complete inner workings of our muscles and how they correspond with our nerves etc. etc. that it is to hard for a normal, not to smart, human being (like me) to talk about it in such a manner. If you don't practice martial arts, and you hear two martial artists talking about ki, you might think that they are crazy, or maybe weed smoking new age dudes :-) Just like one somebody talks about love, it is a feeling, can you prove that it exists? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ Dutch HKD Federation http://www.sangmookwan.com/ SangMooKwan International Training Center Korea --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:52:35 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Cooking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To carry the food and HapKiDo analogy in an other direction...and to plug the up coming USKMAF Seminar ... you can always as find much HapKiDo and Korean Martial Arts as your body can stand and all the fried, broiled, baked or raw food you can eat in Jackson, MS on Sept. 9th thru the 11th . Usually some of the best freestyle and application of techniques are found at the buffet line. Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest