Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 03:01:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #350 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Ba Duan Jin (David Weller) 2. RE: Hapkido Cooking (Wayne Watkins) 3. Re: Re: ICHF material (AMERHKD@aol.com) 4. Re: Government control of martial arts (Steve Lewis) 5. Re: Nice hapkido Book (Smb120417@cs.com) 6. Re: Hapkido Cooking (Steve Lewis) 7. Re: Perspective (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: David Weller Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 08:14:46 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ba Duan Jin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net It is interesting to see the multitude of variations on a theme in the Martial World. I learned Ba Duan Jin from an elderly Chinese acupuncturist/Tai Chi/ Qi Gong Master who lived with my wife and I for a while in 1998. He had done a commercial tape in Japan some years earlier and also allowed us to tape the lessons he gave us. Although there are a few similarities in what is posted on Midwest Hapkido's web site, much of it is entirely different. There were sounds associated with several of the forms ie: form 1 "she" vocalized three times as the hands are raised skyward, palms out. The first form described on the site is quite like the first form I learned (with the exception of standing on tippy toes and the lack of verbalization, which my teacher told me was optional anyhow) but the rest bear little or no similarity to what i learned. I love to practice these forms. I find it odd that there are such variations in forms that have the same name. My teacher actually wrote the chinese characters on the tape he gave us, but they are greek to me, maybe something was lost in translation. I think this speaks to the standardization issue that has been brought up re Hapkido. If the Chinese, who have been practicing these forms for quite some time compared to the advent of Hapkido, cannot agree on a standard "ba duan jin" form, how can varying Hapkido styles (or any other martial art) expect to arrive at anything close to agreement on terms and methods? None of this detracts from the beauty and value of what I, or anyone else, have learned as Ba Duan Jin. Heck we call the game with the oblong ball "football" and the rest of the world uses the same term to describe an entirely different sport, but neither sport is in danger of collapse over the use of the term "football". On the subject of regulations in the martial arts. I must respectfully disagree with Sid. The Government has it's fingers in enough of my personal life already. Were MA's to be "regulated" I would have to find an underground Dojang to train in. The Gov't has no business getting involved and to think they could make things any better is simply a dream. But that's my opinion and you are certainly entitled to yours (that is until our thoughts become regulated by the Gov't. ;) dave weller On Aug 25, 2005, at 7:48 AM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > I have posted the "8 Pieces of Brocade" (C. "Ba Duan Jin; K. "Moo Pal > Dan Kum") on my website. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 19:09:15 -0500 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido Cooking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ya'll up north have three meal an day cooked in that kichen: Breakfast , Lunch and Dinner. Down her n the south we put a pot on the stove and have three meals: Breakfast, Dinner and Supper. (yes Ray I know GM West and I sometimes have 5 or 6 meals a day) You say potatoe we say taters, makes no difference its all the same. Let's just get on the floor and have fun. I am looking forward to seeing our extended family in a couple of weeks jere in deepest darkest Jackson [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: AMERHKD@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:09:07 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: ICHF material To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I rarely post on this sight, however I have watched the info being spun on JP and decided to state some actual facts. I am defintely not a advocate for JP however I do wish to share the facts with you. John Pelegrini was promoted to 1st dan in HKD by Grandmaster Michael Wollmershauser on July 9, 1988, through the AHA. That was the first time he received a black belt promotion in hapkido according to the information provided by him at the time he joined the AHA. That is it. Do the math. How do I know this information. I hold the records for the AHA for all of the black belts promoted under Master Wollmershauser. I am Joannie Wollmershauser. I also have applications from many of you that joined the AHA starting in 1981. Very interesting reading if I do say so myself considering where some people are today as far a rank. I just think the art of hapkido would be far better served if everyone dealt in facts about the art and not who is where in rank. Who cares, the bottom line is if you have the knowledge you have sought and the training in an art you love then be happpy. Eventually you will have to step on the mat and then what you know in hapkido will be obvious. And remember the more you talk about someone the more free press you give them. Is that your goal for hapkido to promote someone you like to bash. How healthy is that for hapkido. My hello's to everyone. Joanie Wollmershauser --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:47:15 -0700 From: Steve Lewis To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Government control of martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net *delurk* tkdsid@aol.com wrote: > contacted the Kukkiwon with no response. Bottom line? People that are > honest should not fear regualtion. The other point...martial arts is Your logic fails you. The case you argue does not support your conclusion. The bottom line is that the buyer should beware. Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither. > be. When one considers the amount of fraud, stealing, lieing and > cheating that you can find everywhere its time that we did something > creative. To simply say its all on us is callous. On this we agree: a creative solution is merited. Online trust networks (ala Friendster) could be a solution if they did not compromise our individual privacy by selling our information to third parties. Anonymous rating banks (ala eOpinions) get ballot-stuffed. Disassociated trust scales (ala Better Business Bureau) don't answer to our individual preferences and values (see recent threads about Combat Hapkido vs Traditional Hapkido). Finally, regulation does not solve the problem, as has been well documented. Corruption, especially kickbacks and the profit motive inherent to regulators cloud the objectivity of the regulating body. Further, it just serves to disenfranchise start-ups studios by increasing cost and disarms critical thinking among easily misled new students when the third parties issue pieces of paper to be put on the wall of the dojang without understanding the nuances of what the paper does and does not signify. regards, -- SteveL --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Smb120417@cs.com Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 16:46:15 EDT Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Nice hapkido Book To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye, I think you are referring to the Hapkido book by Mark Tedeschi. It is a thousand pages long & goes for $90.00. Steve Bowman --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:10:21 -0700 From: Steve Lewis To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Cooking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce Sims wrote: > Though what is produced in the kitchens across America may vary, I > think I am safe to say that the location is still called a "kitchen", > a "frying pan" is still called a "frying pan" and a "stove" is still > a "stove". (...) except when the stove is called a "range" or "oven" or even "kiln." This doesn't begin to touch on the places where the apparatus varies: a Franklin stove or a potbellied stove or a "hobo stove." I think that the oversimplification of the analogy extends to the discussion of Hapkido. Why do we need to standardize the language? Language is inherently fluid. Words shift in meaning across individuals and across time. Think about that. When I say "a red car" what do you think of exactly? What are the odds that I imagine the exact same car? There is no way to absolutely peek into the mind of another to know that I am thinking of the exact same object. Further consider the meaning of the word "gay" in English across the last hundred years. This is the nature of language. Any attempt to say "this is *the* correct word" refuses to acknowledge the nature of language itself. The primary value in language is the ability to communicate between two individuals. It is an imperfect mechanism which is why our vocabularies become so large. If "knee joint snap" doesn't communicate the technique to you, I can use more words or I can just demonstrate the skill. That should be good enough, right? regards, -- SteveL --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Perspective To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 14:41:35 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > If Tang Soo Do is the same generic term as Karate, then the Term Tang Soo Do > can not be a style, just as Karate is not a style. News to me. Karate is a style as far as I've ever heard. But as for MDK, not sure how an institute/kwan could be a style... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest