Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:50:56 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #353 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Ki (Bob Banham) 2. Tedeschi's book (J R Hilland) 3. Flow of Ki? (J R Hilland) 4. Re: Nice hapkido Book (andrew swogger) 5. Good luck (Edward Peters, III) 6. RE: Mongolian Arts influence Korean MA (Clint Cayson) 7. RE: Good luck (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: Ki (Rick Clark) 9. Re: Tedeschi's book (Jye nigma) 10. RE: Ki (Jye nigma) 11. Last Word on Karate (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 12. Re: Last Word on Karate (Ray) 13. Ba Duan Jin (David Weller) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Bob Banham" To: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:10:13 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just a couple of thoughts on the 'ki' question. I trained and worked as an acupuncturist for 20 years and without 'ki' this could not have been. There are many things the scientific world cannot quantify - spirit, soul, intellect, love, passion, instinct, intuition etc. This doesn't mean they don't exist. Would James Randi accept proof of the existence of one of these (if that were possible)? And does that proof have to conform to his definition? Because 'ki' has already been proven in many other ways. We know that horses and dogs and many other animals respond very positively to both acupuncture and homoeopathy. It can't be explained by a mind-over-matter or placebo effect because it is not possible for an animal to be psycologically manipulated that way. We have a debate here in UK at the moment due to The Lancet (the foremost medical publication) stating categorically that homoeopathy is worthless and has no conceivable basis in scientific fact. Now I don't know about you guys but I am a lot more sceptical of those sort of claims than I am of the existence of powers/actions we don't yet understand. I have used homoeopathy over the past 30 years of practice to achieve all sorts of amazing results and if you consider some of the disasters that have been brought about by the arrogance of 'scientific thought' (thalidomide was prescribed by the medical profession for nausea in pregnant women in the 1950's because it was considered safe and your own president George Washington died of a throat infection after being bled of nine pints of blood in 24 hours! The medical profession thought this would help him!). All I am saying is that old knowledge sometimes has the edge on new. I am not a Luddite but I really do believe there are some things we can't possibly prove with our current level of science. The existence of ki together with the existence of God, soul, spirit etc. is just one of them. Bob --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:34:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tedeschi's book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Re: Mark Tedeschi's book... My only complaint with his book is that the print and the pictures are way to small for even my bifocals and it sits on my shelf collecting dust for that reason. If my eyes were younger I may have enjoyed the book, but the small print and the tiny pictures in the book just gives me a headache. It does look like he put a great deal of time and effort in it and does not appear to be just a reproduction of Dr. Kimm's hapkido vol's I&II. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:45:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Flow of Ki? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Well said. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "andrew swogger" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Nice hapkido Book Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:33:44 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Smb120417@cs.com wrote: >Jye, I think you are referring to the Hapkido book by Mark Tedeschi. It is >a >thousand pages long & goes for $90.00. > Amazon has it for $60. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 01:13:40 -0500 From: "Edward Peters, III" To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Good luck Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is a quick wish that all our friends in Jackson are safe. I hope that this storm does not effect anyone too greatly. --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Mongolian Arts influence Korean MA Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 09:34:17 -0400 From: "Clint Cayson" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye, I recently saw a movie "MUSA" about those Korean Warriors sent to China for peace and ended up fighting some Mongolian/Chinese fighters. I think there's a significance of your inquiry about the Koreans MA influence. Clint -----Original Message----- From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:10 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Mongolian Arts influence Korean MA My net went down as I tried to send this so if you get 2 copies sorry. I was wondering what are some of the Mongolian influenced Korean Martial arts? Jye __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Good luck Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 13:51:26 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I second that.. for all of you in the path of Katrina stay safe and I have already said a personal prayer for all of you.....Michael Tomlinson >From: "Edward Peters, III" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: Dojang Digest >Subject: [The_Dojang] Good luck >Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 01:13:40 -0500 > >Here is a quick wish that all our friends in Jackson are safe. >I hope that this storm does not effect anyone too greatly. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:52:55 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Ki To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bob, >We know that horses and dogs and many other animals respond >very positively to both acupuncture and homoeopathy. We have had acupuncture used on our show horses and I have seen positive results. > your own president George Washington died of a throat infection after being bled of nine >pints of blood in 24 hours! The medical profession thought this would help him!). Quite true and Acupuncture is a treatment modality that is at least as old as bleeding if not older. Hummmmmm? > >All I am saying is that old knowledge sometimes has the edge >on new. I am not a Luddite but I really do believe there are some things we can't possibly prove with our current level of >science. The existence of ki together with the existence of God, soul, spirit etc. is just one of them. > >Bob When people start talking about moving things with Ki, or knocking out people, throwing people without touching them etc. with Ki, talk of paranormal ability I really have a great deal of doubt. Is there something in our body that can be described as ki? Probably, but when you start to talk about paranormal ability this is when I want to call in an outside source to verify, so that I can be sure that its not some con. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:01:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tedeschi's book To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm gonna stop by the book store to see if this is the same book. I remember only the different hands or fists were small pics. I'll get back to you all today. Jye J R Hilland wrote: Re: Mark Tedeschi's book... My only complaint with his book is that the print and the pictures are way to small for even my bifocals and it sits on my shelf collecting dust for that reason. If my eyes were younger I may have enjoyed the book, but the small print and the tiny pictures in the book just gives me a headache. It does look like he put a great deal of time and effort in it and does not appear to be just a reproduction of Dr. Kimm's hapkido vol's I&II. Jere R. Hilland www.hapkidoselfdefense.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:03:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Ki To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If I'm not mistaken, the chinese call that empty force...I don't believe it. Jye Rick Clark wrote: When people start talking about moving things with Ki, or knocking out people, throwing people without touching them etc. with Ki, talk of paranormal ability I really have a great deal of doubt. Is there something in our body that can be described as ki? Probably, but when you start to talk about paranormal ability this is when I want to call in an outside source to verify, so that I can be sure that its not some con. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 08:08:46 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Last Word on Karate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net OK Ray If you say that "Karate" is a style of Japanese martial arts, then is it accurate to say TKD, Hapkido, SBD, TSD, or any other Korean martial art is Karate I don't think so. "Karate" may be a Japanese term, but its meaning is empty hand, which means the term is like an umbrella that covers many "Styles" regardless of there origin. If I say in plain english that I train in empty hand fighting, that statement alone does not distinguish any one style form another. Style is a more descriptive word. Anyway; This has gotten beat to death, and is really not all that important, so I will agree to disagree and move on. But as always I have enjoyed the discussion. "Discipline goes beyond your personal feeling" HWANG KEE JC CoxGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Last Word on Karate To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 10:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > If you say that "Karate" is a style of Japanese martial arts, then is it > accurate to say TKD, Hapkido, SBD, TSD, or any other Korean martial art is > Karate Obviously not Hapkido. But TKD, SBD and TSD can be thought of as Korean Karate. A style now distinctly unique from Karate (aka Japanese Karate-Do). Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: David Weller Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 14:42:22 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Ba Duan Jin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Kirsch, Thanks for the information provided here and on your web page. Still much different than what I learned, but as you noted there are many different variations on this. My instructor was specific that this was "Ba Duan Jin" and he taught sounds with 4 of the 8 forms. He was a "doctor", and was teaching these forms as ways to remain/become healthy so that might explain his use of sounds in the forms. He did mention, though I did not take good notes on this, that these exercises benefited specific organs. You gave me lots of interesting reading in the link on Ba Duan Jin, and I appreciate that. Nicely done! dave weller On Aug 28, 2005, at 9:42 PM, "Don Kirsch" wrote: > As any student who has trained with me will tell you I have been > practicing > and teaching a version of the "8 Pieces of Silk Brocade" for many > years. There > are many, many different variations of this set of Qi Gong exercises . > I too > have a link to a version of these exercises along with some of the > history of > the patterns at www.texashapkido.com . > One > clarification I would like to make is the use of sounds in the Qi Gong > exercises. The method mentioned using sounds is most likely what is > known as > the "Six Sound Healing Qi Gong". A specific sound is used to activate a > particular meridian along with a movement which simulates that > meridian It is > a Qi Gong practice which helps in healing the particular functional > organ > system associated with the sound and movement. A good introduction to > this > method of Qi Gong can be found in the book "The Way of Qi Gong" by > Kenneth S. > Cohen. > > Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest