Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:07:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #355 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Karate & Tang Soo Do (brent b) 2. Re: Ms. Wollmershauser (Dewitt, Garrett) 3. *"8 Pieces of Terminology " (Bruce Sims) 4. Hapkido Weapons (Bruce Sims) 5. Styles?? (Bruce Sims) 6. Jang's Martial Arts, Chicago (AGJ) 7. Hapkido Warning (Bruce Sims) 8. Ji Han Jae Seminar (James Allison) 9. The_DojangCommon Terms (Curt McCauley) 10. Re: The_DojangCommon Terms (Ray) 11. Tedeschi's book (J R Hilland) 12. KHF site inaccuracy (Nickolay Tchernolutsky) 13. Katrina (J.R. West) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 05:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: brent b To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Karate & Tang Soo Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi there, I beg to differ here on the terminology of Karate (empty hand) and Tang Soo Do (Tang hand). The original Karate meant China hand or Tang hand (Tang Dynasty). The symbol was changed to empty hand by the Japanese, whom did not want the relationship of the (their) art to associated with China, but the pronunciation was the same - two characters that sound the same. The character for Tang Soo Do is the same as the original karate - China hand or Tang hand. Tang Soo Do is not empty hand. Brent Balfanz the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:06:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Karate Style Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray If Karate (Empty Hand) is a style, then all empty hand arts are Karate style. Lets not spin this. Karate or Karate-do is a generic term meaning empty hand method of fighting. We could say boxing is Karate style. Tang Soo Do is the same exact term, --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:29:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ms. Wollmershauser Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ms. Wollmershauser. Thank you for the excellent post to the dojang digest. Your comments, " I just think the art of hapkido would be far better served if everyone dealt in facts about the art and not who is where in rank." "Eventually you will have to step on the mat and then what you know in hapkido will be obvious." is often echoed by Grandmaster Rudy Timmerman, especially when he is grinding my face in the mat to make such a point. I have so much to learn.... Best Regards to you and your family Garrett Brainerd, MN. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:23:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] *"8 Pieces of Terminology " Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".... Although there are a few similarities in what is posted on Midwest Hapkido's web site, much of it is entirely different....." Thanks for speaking up, David. The BA DUAN JIN are not the only practices that get this multiple interpretation treatment. The same has happened to the MARROW CLEANSING treatise associated with Bodhidarma and the TAM TUI material associated with a range of Chinese Boxing styles. When it comes to terminology my sense is that if the Hapkido community could come to call a particular technique by a particular name it would make it esier to communicate about the art. I wonder if one of the reasons that this does not happen is that terminology is used to delineate one art's "turf" from another's. Thoughts? Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:29:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: ".....The primary question is The Hapkido system you study....does it teach weapons?...." Yes, those Hapkido arts that use a Mu-Do approach including Kuk Sul Won and Hwa Rang Do teach a range of weapons. The degree to which their material is "combat appropriate" is a matter of conjecture. Other Hapkido arts may teach a less comprehensive approach to weaponry. Again, combat effectiveness is a matter of conjecture. Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:49:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Styles?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....> If Tang Soo Do is the same generic term as Karate, then the Term Tang Soo Do > can not be a style, just as Karate is not a style....." I have to say that I have all but given-up trying to sort through the TANGSOODO issues. However, I DO think it is representative of what happens when an art's name shifts from identifying a very specific activity to being a general label. Used to be that "Karate" only identified the tradition of Funakoshi--- aka. SHOTOKAN. With the death of that teacher his legacy split and each organization continued to call itself "Karate" albeit with the appropriate organizational qualifier. Funakoshi himself was fond of delineating between various lines of his Karate including Shorei, Shorin and Tomari. Most Okinawans weren't real happy about of which Miyagi was probably the most outspoken critic. All of which is to share the following thought. A style can be identified as a variance in material which still espouses to accomplish the same goal using the same method. Just about every "style" I have come across has little or nothing to do with a modification of fundamental execution. Rather the differences are almost always to do with the manner in which the material is taught, and by extension what "important" material is included and what "un-important" material is left out. In this way, "style becomes more of a function of a teacher's priorities and values than the actual combat effectiveness of the art. Just some idle thoughts. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: AGJ To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jang's Martial Arts, Chicago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have any information on this school located at 6354 W. Grand Ave. in Chicago. Where did Master Jang study? Does the school have a good program? Thank you. Jawara __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 06:59:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Warning Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: ".....What is your thought on the technical aspect of Hapkido?..." Its absolutely WORTHLESS!!! None of the techniques work and the Hapkido community is full of phonies and charlatans!! None of these guys know what they are doing as they have ALL bought their belts and can't fight their way out of a paperbag!! They charge incredibly high prices for fake techniques and will leave town with your money at a moment's notice. BUT --- you are in luck. "I" alone have the single true and accurate technical expertise to make you a true killing machine. It will of course cost you something but a mere pittance when you think about all the secret information I can sel----- er---- reveal to you. Take you time and when you are ready the mortgage on your house and the birthrights of your children will be a suitable down-payment towards your training. Must sign-off now as I will need to have my tongue surgically removed from my cheek after this post. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "James Allison" To: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:37:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ji Han Jae Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wondering if anyone on the list was going to the Ji Han Jae seminar hosted by Master Mike McCarty in Connecticut September 23-25th? Myself and several of students are going to be there. Master McCarty is a great host and I know that some top notch folks will be there. Not to mention that if you still haven't trained with Do Ju Nim you need to! I will look forward to seeing old friends, making new ones and slamming each other into the mat. Respectfully yours in Hapkido, James Allison www.hapkido-america.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:43:23 -0700 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] The_DojangCommon Terms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Standardization only stagnates if you allow it to. Best Example: World Moo Duk Kwan with President and Kwan Jang Nim H.C. Hwang, founded by his Father Hwang Kee, Kwan Jang NIm. The further away from your foundation (founder) you get, the weaker you become. This applies not only in the physical, but also organizationally. C.W. McCauley --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] The_DojangCommon Terms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Standardization only stagnates if you allow it to. Best Example: World Moo > Duk Kwan with President and Kwan Jang Nim H.C. Hwang, founded by his Father > Hwang Kee, Kwan Jang NIm. The further away from your foundation (founder) > you get, the weaker you become. This applies not only in the physical, but > also organizationally. So the fact that I am only once removed from Hwang Kee (one person in the lineage between Hwang Kee and me) automatically makes me stronger in all ways than you? I doubt that is necessarily the case. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:31:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tedeschi's book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> And the print is normal and the pictures are much better for those of us with aging vision in the books by Dr. Kimm. All though I have a rather large collection of books, and like Ray, most would have been sold at some point if not for the fact that I collect them (some are out of print and someday they may be worth something to someone), my favorite books of all time remain 3 out of the 6 books I have by Dr. Kimm. Hapkido I&II and Philosophy of Masters... JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:08:15 +0400 (MSD) From: Nickolay Tchernolutsky To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KHF site inaccuracy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear fellow KMA students and teachers! This is just a minor notice to those of you who have close ties with KHF in Korea. I have just happened to look at their site at www.daehanhapkido.org and noticed a peculiar thing when I got to the videoclips section (press the image of the video camera above the words "Moving image gallery" on the main page to get there). If you look closely at the graphic file showing a man (his legs actually :))) ) doing an arm lock try to read the words typed on the left under the word "Community". This is a graphic file so perhaps you will have to save it to your hard drive and use a graphic viewer if you want to enlarge it to make it readable. The thing is, this small-print text speaks about taekwondo, not hapkido. This post is in NO way intended to smear KHF (I myself am a KHF student in Russia) but to correct the inaccuracy. Moreover, I am more than sure that the text had not been composed by a KHF member but probably by someone from the design studio doing the site for them. Could any of the DD members associated with KHF in Korea contact them about it? I am sure it will be faster than to contact the design agency whose address is given on the page. Hapki! Nickolay Tchernolutsky Russia --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Katrina Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Here is a quick wish that all our friends in Jackson are safe. I hope that this storm does not effect anyone too greatly." Thanx for your very kind thoughts......The storm was MUCH more severe than anticipated, but fortunately, all that was damaged at my house were two very old cedar trees that became horizontal, and one oak tree that decided I no longer needed my back yard completely fenced. Again fortunately, the oak belonged to someone else and their insurance will replace Manson's wall. We are still without power at the house, but the dojang is 100%, and Master Instructor Watkins is cooking sausage on his grill for later. The seminar is still a go!....Life is good.....J. R. West --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest