Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 19:11:14 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #358 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Proving the existence of KI (Stovall, Craig) 2. Re: Katrina help (tkdtom) 3. Katerina help (Gordon) 4. Foundation (J R Hilland) 5. Foundation- a different view (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 6. Re: RE: Proving the existence of KI (jakskru) 7. Jackson event still on (Ray) 8. NKMAA seminars (Rudy Timmerman) 9. (no subject) (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Kuk Sool ??? (Rudy Timmerman) 11. Dr. Kimm's vs the hurricane (Don Kirsch) 12. Happy B-Day Kat! (Ray) 13. RE: NKMAA seminars (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 08:28:36 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Proving the existence of KI Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> And the Romans probably said something to the effect, "the water flows down hill because of the water babies". Observing a process (or even exploiting a process) and understanding the underlying causes are two different things. I have no problem with the idea that "ki" is a concept that describes the sum of a great many psycho-physical processes that are hard to describe and/or measure. If someone has great technique, profound mental concentration, superior strength, and excellent coordination...then the synergy of those attributes will be observable in the application and practice of whatever art they are doing. If you want to use ki/chi/prana as an umbrella term to describe that synergistic effect...fine, I have no problem with that. I mean, I don't think you can measure "sex appeal" under the current state of technology, but it's easy to see that people like me and Brad Pitt have lots and lots of "sex appeal"...;) Where I start getting annoyed is when people start attributing all these magical qualities to ki. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that there's a force in my body that extends from my finger and travels infinitely through the universe. And I'm sure going to need more proof than another person's well established belief before I start believing it myself. Craig "You Gotta Show Me" Stovall --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "tkdtom" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Katrina help Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:18:10 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks. Done. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray" To: "The_Dojang" Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Katrina help > One way to help those impacted by Katrina... > > > https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp > > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Katerina help Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We've discussed a kick-a-thon and one of our instructors mentioned a break-a-thon. Any suggestions? What to do, what not to do, what to watch for. etc. Gordon --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:02:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Foundation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> When I get on the mats with someone, all I care about is their technique, and that has NOTHING to do with anything else. I don't care who their teacher is, what organization they belong to, their rank, their time in rank, their politics, what county they were born in or anything else. This is all meaningless. This type of posturing and grandstanding on the mats will get you hurt. It is ONLY about their technique. Politics in the martial arts has absolutely NO relationship with the skill level of technique. I once trained with a fellow in Houston who was outstanding at what he did. You know what? He did not have a clue about the history or politics of his art he had been studying for over 40 years. He did not even know or care who the founder was. He did not belong to any organization, just his teachers dojang. In fact the ONLY dan certificate he valued was the one signed by his teacher, not by an organization. He was never taught any of the history or politics back in Korea as a child. He did not care either, as it was all about the technique of his art, not the politics, or who did what to who or when. He is but one example of dozens I could state. I have also been on the mats with many people who do not have a pedigree and those that 'claim' one. There is no difference. Why? Because it is all about the technique. What you are stating, promotes the attitude of isolationism and stagnation, something we should ALL be against. JRH www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:58:24 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Foundation- a different view Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Foundation- a different view I have known several excellent MA Grand Masters and have read the bios of many others during the past 35 years. Many of these Grand Masters have trained in more than one MA and with different instructors. I am sure most of the people on the DD can think of a few such people. It maybe their strong quest for skills and knowledge that drove some of them to do this and it maybe this extensive knowledge or foundation that really made them Grand. Gichin Funakoshi commented on this issue in his book, “Karate-Do, My Way of Life.” Funakoshi wrote “Both Azato and his good friend Itosu shared at least one quality of greatness: they suffered from no petty jealousy of other masters. They would present me (Funakoshi) to teachers of their acquaintance, urging me to learn from each the technique at which he excelled. Ordinary karate instructors, in my (Funakoshi) experience, are reluctant to permit their pupils to study under instructors of other schools, but this was far from the true of either Azato or Itosu.” As many of you know, Gichin Funakoshi is often referred to as the father of modern Karate and two of his famous instructors were Masters Azato and Itosu. I believe the point about learning the techniques at which instructors or masters excelled is a very good one. As we all know, every person, including MA instructors, has strengths and weaknesses. Learning only one style of MA or from only one MA instructor over your lifetime is very limiting IMHO. Having said all that, there is one problem with changing schools, MA organizations and MA styles and that is getting those important promotions/certificates. If you stay with one school, organization and /or MA style, you have a better opportunity of getting a certification as Master and Grand Master. If your quest is for extensive skills and knowledge than you may not care about the certifications. If you want to make your living teaching MA than the certification become more important. It can be a difficult decision on what is the correct path. Good Luck. John --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Proving the existence of KI Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:22:44 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i use ki every day....to open thr door to my house, to start my car, to draw on my neighbors car.... --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson event still on Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just now got off the phone with GM West. He was telling me how bad Katrina was even up in Jackson. We do worry about all you down closer to the Gulf coast. He tells me that the huge Jackson KMA event is still on. Shouldn't be any problems there. His dojang is in fine shape as is the hotel that will be used for the event. But don't even think of trying to fly into New Orleans and driving up to Jackson. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:12:06 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] NKMAA seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Gordon writes: > We are looking forward to Grandmaster Timmerman > being here in Northwest Florida for our seminar this coming weekend. > Glad to hear yours did well. From one coast to another. :) As Kevin alluded to, it was a whirlwind trip from the Coast of Oregon to the Gulf Coast of Florida. Flying part way, and driving the other part... I returned from Florida just a few minutes ago, and I thought I best take care of several things on the DD right away before I crash after the 26 hour drive home. I am still looking for my luggage that was lost somewhere when I changed planes in Chicago. It apparently followed me to Florida, but it never did show up at Master Gordon's place. If anyone happens to run into my Doboks lol... First things first. A heartfelt thank you to Master DEWitt and all who wished me a happy birthday as I made my way to Portland. Many sent me some personal messages, and I will answer them all SAP:) While I am at it, I wish KSN Kat Kelly, our Texas NKMAA member who sometimes takes on the explosive force of a hurricane herself, the best ever Birthday. Many more Kat, and I hope we can soon share some quality time again (you still owe me a dance). I will hoist a toast to you tonight my friend:) Next, I wish to thank Masters Janisse and Gordon for hosting me at their NKMAA seminars, and I assure you both that I had a great time. The hospitality I receive from NKMAA seminar hosts is unbelievable, and it truly leaves me humbled. To take care of me is one thing, but to take care of my "extended family" of students and parents is quite another, and Master Gordon and his lovely wife Lisa and their kids went out of their way to make sure everyone was taken care of (even though they had hurricane Kat to prepare for in the meantime). I also like to thank SBN Miner who first flew from Toronto to Oregon to train with me and then flew to the Gulf Coast for more of the same the following weekend... awesome (are you still married lol). Hope you and your partner Paul made it home safe. You beat the big wind by just an hour my friends. I would be amiss if I did not mention the fortitude of ALL the students who hosted or attended the Florida seminar with Hurricane Kat closing in fast, and I can only hope that the folks who traveled from from Mobile, AL all made it home safe and sound. I simply had no idea that this thing was going to be such a devastating storm when I decided to "go for it" despite knowing it was coming our way, and I am glad that I was able to get my team home safe and sound after a little diversion to some of Orlando's attractions. A BIG thank you to all of those who came to get some "mat time" with me, and I sincerely hope all of you are safe and that your losses are minimal. I pray for the poor souls who bore the full brunt of this horrific storm. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:15:36 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Gm Seo teaches Kuk Sul Won, yes it was once Kuk Sul Hapkido, but > the point > being is that the KSW forms were added later. > > Rudy, do you know if they were added in the 1960s? Hi Ray. sorry for the delay in answering this. YES... I did the Kuk Sool forms back in the 60s as regular part of the curriculum. GM Pak did the same forms (nearly identical to the ones used today PLUS a few others that are no longer being taught in WKSA). Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:34:55 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kuk Sool ??? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JR writes: > First off, GM Seo is most certainly NOT a Hapkido man, but rather > Kuk Sool > Won, Hello JR: I have had the opportunity to observe GM P a few times now, and the basic motion he has is not Kuk Sool either. It looks like a duck, but it does not "WALK" like a duck:) I have seen that in a number of people who began their training in another art. It seems the basics are hard to lose or change, and the end result is that the person may be able to do the techniques; however, they take on a totally different flavor. In fact, I have seen on group of people under a well known Master (who studied a nice art to begin with) lose it to the point where it is no longer recognizable as the original art. You can be a terrific water color artist and a great painter... Now you begin placing oil paints on your palette, and suddenly your painting no longer looks like a watercolor. Maybe you are still a great painter, but you are no longer of any interest to those who collect water colors. OR... maybe you lost it as a water color artist and NEVER made it as an oil based artist. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:43:51 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dr. Kimm's vs the hurricane Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To answer Lloyd's question "Has anyone heard from Dr Kimm?" . I too was concerned about Dr. Kimm and Mrs. Kimm's well being in the wake of Katrina . I e-mailed Dr. Kimm to see if all was well and his son Donald replied that Mrs. Kimm and Dr. Kimm were in California visiting his other son and new grandson when the hurricane hit. He said except being with out power for a few days everything was OK and classes has resumed at Dr. Kimm's dojang. Regards and thoughts to all who are now picking up the pieces after Katrina, Don Kirsch --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 18:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy B-Day Kat! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > While I am at it, I wish KSN Kat Kelly, our Texas NKMAA member who > sometimes takes on the explosive force of a hurricane herself, the > best ever Birthday. Wow! I thought Kat was going to stop having birthdays after she turned 21 just last year.?. Look out world! :) Ray "Happy B-Day Kat" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] NKMAA seminars Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:47:47 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Grandmaster Timmerman, We're glad you arrived home safely. The students are still buzzing about the seminar. The KI breaking has some puzzled and I'm going to buy some more blocks so I can practice some at home. We look forward to seeing you again. If any of you ever get the chance to train with these Grandmaster West or Timmerman, don't miss out. I've been to a lot of seminars and I can say without hesitation that the Jackson event is easily the best bang for the buck. A buffet....for martial artists! Warm regards, Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest