Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:37:15 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #364 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: searching for a school (Kevin F. Donohue) 2. spamming people (Ray) 3. Info For Hap Ki Do School (Dewitt, Garrett) 4. Re: Info For Hap Ki Do School (Ray) 5. Quality Control?? (Bruce Sims) 6. RE: Hapkido school near North Bergen (Howard Spivey) 7. Re: The_Dojang digest quality control (mark scianna) 8. ARticle: ksw twin long swords (Jye nigma) 9. Loyalty, Respect and Ethics (Lorne Keatley) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 02:06:56 -0400 From: "Kevin F. Donohue" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] searching for a school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gaby, If you mean North Bergen, New Jersey... you have a KHF School close to you: Sun Bi World Martial Arts Fitness *Master Jonathan Kleineman* 353 Palisades Ave. Cliffside Park, New Jersey (201)941-2234 www.sun-bi.com You also have* *Jungki style Hapkido School not that far away: *I*ron Eagle Hapkido 155 Valley Road Clifton, NJ 07013 *Master Michael D'Aloia* 973-754-0105 www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com/iehinfo.html There used to be a school, not sure if it's still there or not, at: World Martial Arts School Hapkido, Tae Kwon Do, Kumdo 7707 Bergenline Ave North Bergen, NJ 07047 *GM Ki-Duke Lee* -9th degree Black Belt, Korean Hapkido Association (now KHF) 201-453-0111 I have never met Jonathan... I spoke to him once or twice and he seems like a nice guy. His credentials are authentic and he has trained with some great martial artists. I have met Mike D'Aloia.... great guy... runs a nice school and also has a great "pedigree", has learned from some great Hapkidoin. There are probably many other TKD schools that teach a full Hapkido program in your area due to the vast number of Korean immigrants. Between Fort Lee, Palisades Park and North Bergen there has to be a few. I hope this helps you, Kevin F. Donohue gaby noufaily wrote: >hi guys, I am now in the states and I live in north bergen, jfk >boulevard, I would like to know where I can find a good hapkido school >next to my house. thanks in advance. gaby >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 05:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] spamming people Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks, several of you have complained about getting spammed by one particular person that is apparently using the email addrs of our list members: > >I took the liberty to mail you with this promotion after I found your >e-mail address in my addressbook. > Obviously that is a bozo-no-no. Please do not spam other members with unsolicited emails. Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dewitt, Garrett" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net.'" Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:24:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Info For Hap Ki Do School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a friend who lives in Phoenix, AZ. He is quite interested in learning Hap Ki Do. He has been pestering me for guidance with this. Since I am NOT qualified to direct him in this art, does anyone on the DD know of a good quality Hap Ki Do school within this city? I thank you in advance. Garrett Brainerd, MN. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Info For Hap Ki Do School To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have a friend who lives in Phoenix, AZ. He is quite interested in > learning Hap Ki Do. > He has been pestering me for guidance with this. Since I am NOT qualified to > direct him in this art, > does anyone on the DD know of a good quality Hap Ki Do school within this > city? I just checked into exactly this about a month or two ago for a friend. I talked to one (former) Hapkido instructor there that was no longer teaching, health issues. He claimed that there were no HKD dojangs in the Phoenix area. FWIW... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 12:00:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Quality Control?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....No amount of politics or paper hanging on your wall can justify leaving a good instructor... they are too hard to find....." Dear Rudy: Not being KSW or related to it I didn't feel like I could speak-up, so here's a quick note of thanks for saying what I was thinking. I think the KSW organization has some great people in it, but I tend to see way too many conclusions drawn about someone's competence seemingly because they are associated with that organization. I have likewise seen a few conclusions made about quality control vis the HwaRangDo people in much the same vein. Thanks again. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:49:21 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido school near North Bergen Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Gaby, I train in a traditional Hapkido school about 10 - 12 miles from you, very accessible from Route 3 west. The school is called Iron Eagle Hapkido, in Clifton (155 Valley Road). Here's the link to the school's website. http://www.jungkihapkidoamerica.com/ You are welcome to come by any time and watch a class and chat with the instructor and students. We always welcome visitors. We'd like to see you soon, Howard ps... Ray, North Bergen is near Seacaucus, NJ, very close to the Lincoln Tunnel into Manhattan. Gaby Noufaily wrote: "hi guys, I am now in the states and I live in north bergen, jfk boulevard, I would like to know where I can find a good hapkido school next to my house. thanks in advance. gaby" --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:32:45 -0400 (EDT) From: mark scianna To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest quality control Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr Timmerman I can speak only of my experiences with the dan testing process in ksw, having also gone through dan testing with the ITF and another large, unnamed TKD org. I live in San Antonio, and all the ksw schools in this part of the world require their students go through the dan testing process in Houston, where GM Suh presides, rather than actually evaluates, based on what I've seen. However the Masters that are actively evaluating the candidates, the Harmons, for example, I believe to be of the highest integrity. When I started this process, Houston required that all black belt candidates test before them at least twice, now I hear it has been increased to 4 times. I know of several cases, and have witnessed one instance myself, where a student has shown up for final testing only to be told to come back in three months, that they were not ready based on past performance. Again based on my own experience, the people that I tested with, from several different states, performed at a high level, and I felt very honored and proud to be testing with these people. Having been around the block a time or two, and having something to compare it to, final testing was one of the most satisfying experiences in my life and I never felt as if I was being given a pass on anything. My ITF testing, while not as extensive or covering nearly as much subject matter, was also conducted by excellent instructors and two people who tested that day did not receive their black belts, which is a testimony to their quality control. Both ITF and WKSA have every specific testing requirements for black belt, and theoretically all black belts throughout the world have required to meet those requirements. I do not doubt that there have been, and are, problems with allowing students to pass, overlooking the fact that they have not learned required sets of techniques, etc, and have heard of it happening in both the ITF and the WKSA. I also know that there are sincere people in both organizations that do their best to keep this from happening. You, at your level have undoubtedly seen more problems than me, but the larger the organization the more likely this is to happen. I am a policeman, and marvel at how some of these guys ever passed the police academy. My son was born 9 years ago with a genetic disorder, and I marvel at how the doctor who told us that he would never walk, talk, or be self aware graduated medical school (my boy now has his yellow belt w/ orange stripe in Kenpo) but he sure had a medical degree. I was not suggesting that anyone leave a quality instructor, just pointing out what I see as an increasing problem in martial arts that eventually can cause us to be lumped in with the WWE and Hong Kong Phooey (who really had poor technique, even for a dog) rather than having the public view martial arts as a legitimate life path. Bruce's posts hit that point better than I did. Mark S --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:30:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ARticle: ksw twin long swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kuk Sool Won's Twin Long Swords Doubly Chilling and ChallengingByJane HollanderBlack Belt June 1990 --------------------------------- Looking for the perfect tournament weapons form? Or perhaps just something to challenge your martial arts skill? Whatever the reason one of the most spectacular weapons forms in all the martial arts is the hyung (form) of Kuk Sool Won's twin long swords. Besides being beautiful to watch, the twin long swords (called ssang jang gum in Korean) hold an interesting place in Korea's history. The first recorded stories about ssang jang gum came from the Korgyo Kingdom which existed about A.D. 600. A korgyo king named So Soo Lim commissioned a Buddhist monk to travel to India and seek more knowledge for Korean Buddhists. Since travel over long distances was extremely dangerous in those days, the king gave the monk a set of ssang jang gum, for self-defense use only. the monk made mention of these unique weapons in his written account of the long journey. A later account documented the ssang jang gum's effectiveness in defending the Paekjae Kingdom against an attack by Silla Kingdom and Tang Dynasty warriors. Five thousand Paekjae fighters successfully defended their stronghold for three days against 200,000 Silla and Chinese fighters. the Paekjae general, Gae Baick, had trained his soldiers in the art of wielding double long swords, which helped keep the invaders at bay for three days. Finally, however, the invaders' greater numbers overcame the Paekjae fighters' skill and the foreigners were victorious. Yet the Silla and Chinese troops were so impressed with the ssang jang gum that they took the weapons and techniques back to their own kingdoms. Later historical writings described ssang jang gum as existing only in the Koong Joong Mu Sool (Royal court martial arts). No longer was the common soldier allowed to use double sword techniques. Limiting ssang jang gum to royalty also restricted knowledge being passed down to present-day Korean martial systems. Only Kuk Sool Won, with its back-ground in royal court fighting techniques, teaches double long sword techniques. In royal court martial arts, male guards carried long double swords. The female guards who protected women royalty used a much shorter version of ssang jang gum, hiding them in the sleeves of their long , flowing outer garments. Today in Kuk Sool Won, a number of different sword hyung exist, all bearing direct roots to ancient Korean fighting forms. There are four types of Kuk Sool Sword techniques: straight, inverted, long twin swords, and short twin swords. Straight sword techniques are learned first and are primarily comprised of the common slices and jabs seen in the sword forms of other martial arts. Inverted or reversed sword techniques have the blade turned upside down with the cutting edge pointing upward. these are short-distance defensive techniques. After Kuk Sool sword stylists learn straight and inverted techniques, they proceeded to long and short double swords. The short versions resemble China's butterfly knives and employ techniques suitable to their short length. Long double swords are the most difficult to master. Their length of approximately four feet gives them extra weight and bulk, making them awkward to wield since each one is held in one hand only. A high degree of wrist strength and flexibility is therefore necessary. When wielding one sword, it is only possible to execute one move at a time. The user may either block or attack, but not both simultaneously. that's not the case with double swords, however. When wielding ssang jang gum, one sword can defend and block while the other delivers an attack. Or both can be employed offensively, or both defensively. When wielding double swords, both hands must be balanced to keep the swords from hitting each other. This skill comes from extensive training, and Kuk Sool students are taught to be equally adept with either hand. Since each ssang jang gum works independently of the other, circling techniques are necessary to keep the blades apart. Most attacks are made in a circular fashion to avoid a clashing of swords. These circular movements require more concentration and physical training than do single sword techniques. As mentioned, double sword techniques require tremendous wrist flexibility and strength. For certain cuts, the last two fingers of each hand grip the sword handle while the wrist snaps like a whip. To be able to perform such techniques, practitioners often develop wrist and finger strength by doing push-ups on their fingers. There are three basic types of ssang jang gum techniques. The first is jung ssang gum (straight double sword techniques), which include straight jabs, slices from side to side, and upward and downward cuts. The second type of Kuk Sool double sword technique is yuk ssang gum (inverted or reversed maneuvers), in which the sword blade is turned upward, positioning the tip toward the rear. Inverted sword techniques are close-range actions designed for small, cramped spaces. The last set of ssang jang gum techniques is jung-yuk ssang gum (straight and inverted double sword actions). This is the most difficult group, since one sword employs straight techniques while the other sword is inverted. A simple example of jung-yuk ssang gum is to stab straight forward with one blade, while the other pokes to the rear in an inverted position Ssang jang gum footwork is designed for countering attacks by more than one person. The sword wielder is constantly turning, blocking and cutting in different directions, as if facing many assailants. As a rule, the amount of time required to become proficient with double long swords is approximately twice as long as that required for a single sword. One reason for this is that it takes longer to build the necessary strength and flexibility in the wrists when using two swords. More time is also needed to master the separate actions of two swords. Once mastered, however, the ssang jang gum are exciting and impressive weapons. Tournament judges and audiences are often dazzled by the lighting-fast simultaneous circular blocks and strikes of the long double swords. Both swords must, however, display equal speed, balance, power , coordination and style. The practitioner must take care not to concentrate all of his energy into one hand while neglecting the other. Each sword is equally important. While speed is important, double sword practitioners should not sacrifice power and well-defined movements for a sloppy blur of motion. If you are balanced coordinated, speed will come naturally. And remember not to allow the swords to strike one another, your body, or the floor. Nothing turns off a weapons forms judge quicker than the sound of metal against metal or metal against the floor. It shows a definite lack of control. --------------------------------- Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Lorne Keatley" To: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:10:29 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Loyalty, Respect and Ethics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alot of people have been throwing the words loyalty, respect and ethics around and frankly just cause you say the words don't mean a thing. In other words, just don't talk the talk but walk the walk. Now mind you there are some masters and associations that are honourable people that practice what they preach. But they are a lot rarer than one is led to believe. Just cause someone sings the song doesn't mean they are loyal and honourable. I see many people in the martial arts feel they are shackled by loyalty to a master who has grown not to deserve such loyalty. I am here to say that loyalty and respect is a two-way street and if there is not a reciprocal exchange in that then that master is not loyal and derserves contempt instead of respect. Respect and loyalty is a mutual agreement, not one of subservience no matter the gap in rank or years. The golden rule states "Treat those the same way you would like to be treated." That phrase translates into Korean with no loss of meaning and no less importance. The way I see it if someone, no matter their rank or stature, demean people in public, spread lies, slanders people's reputations, attempts to drive wedges between friends, sabotage other people's personal relationships and try to control every aspect of another's life including who they talk too is the sorriest excuse for a "humble master" I have ever seen. I for one defintely do not want to associate or be associated with such an individual. If disobeying a person like that is seen as a "betrayal" then as a group we have to take a deep look in our souls and ask ourselves some hard questions. I, for one, have broken the shackles that once bound me and can hold my head up high with a clean conscience and can say without a doubt that life is good. With honour, Lorne Keatley --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest