Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 18:53:16 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #366 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Loyalty, Respect and Ethics (Braeswood Martial Arts) 2. Hudson TX (Braeswood Martial Arts) 3. Double Swords (Bruce Sims) 4. Korean Ethics (Bruce Sims) 5. training to instruct senior citizens? (Arlene Slocum) 6. Re: AZ (Beungood8@aol.com) 7. Katrina in Baton Rouge (Chris Hamilton) 8. Quality (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Jane (Rudy Timmerman) 10. Ideas for teaching autistic and challenged kids (66-21) 11. reputation (Rudy Timmerman) 12. RE: Phoenix Hapkido (Curt McCauley) 13. Re: quality control (Michael Whalen) 14. What is taekwondo won? (tkdsid@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:34:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Loyalty, Respect and Ethics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with you 100% Lorne my friend! I too have been dealt the "Korean Shuffle" more then once! I stand beside you even though miles away! Your friend and partner! Kat --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 06:46:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hudson TX Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all DDers I have an excellent student moving to Hudson TX in early October. Hudson is just outside of Lufkin and within driving distance of Nacogdoches. I have heard rumors there may be a DDer or a Jackson Seminar player teaching in that area. If so, please contact me regarding my students. Kat --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:17:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Double Swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jye: For myself I would be happy if KMA practitioners would simply learn to use ONE sword efficiently and effectively. Other than knowing such practices existed in pre-Yuan Korea, there isn't anything to truely tell us HOW the training went. The MYTBTJ has an entire chapter on the used of Double Sowrds for our consideration. However, I still say lets learn to use ONE sword first. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 05:24:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Ethics Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "..... But they are a lot rarer than one is led to believe. Just cause someone sings the song doesn't mean they are loyal and honourable. I see many people in the martial arts feel they are shackled by loyalty to a master who has grown not to deserve such loyalty. I am here to say that loyalty and respect is a two-way street and if there is not a reciprocal exchange in that then that master is not loyal and derserves contempt instead of respect. Respect and loyalty is a mutual agreement, not one of subservience no matter the gap in rank or years. The golden rule states "Treat those the same way you would like to be treated." That phrase translates into Korean with no loss of meaning and no less importance......" Dear Lorne: I think I know what you are wanting to say and you should know that Confucian and Neo-Confucian thought makes a provision for the sorts of considerations of which you are writing. Lower ranks are indeed required to show deference to seniors. However, it follows that seniors are expected to take care of and encourage their juniors. This is where this Confucian Model usually finds itself being abused here in the West. Certainly juniors are often cowed into showing deference, but then the seniors do not take care of their juniors as they should. In fact quite often the seniors exploit the juniors to the seniors own ends. When this occurs the seniors are liable to the loss of their mandate for failing to honor their responsibilities to their juniors. In Western parlance I suppose this would be not unlike the Golden Rule you mentioned. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Arlene Slocum To: Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] training to instruct senior citizens? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was wondering if anyone can share information and/or experiences in introducing senior citizens to martial arts. Most of the posters on this list are instructors but the majority of students are children and younger adults. I was wondering if there are schools that focus on training "mature adults" (age 60+) or in nursing homes etc. When I retire I would be interested in working with older adults, but would like to know what kind of education, training or materials may be available to qualify me to work with special populations. Thanks. Arlene Slocum Lawrence Tae Kwon Do School Lawrence, Kansas email: slocarl@sbcglobal.net --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:04:44 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: AZ Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 9/8/2005 6:57:29 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I have a friend who lives in Phoenix, AZ. He is quite interested in learning Hap Ki Do." The person Ray asked for was me, and I have a 3rd dan student who will be moving to Phoenix in about 4 months. Her name is Dr. Audrey Tsao (she should be easy enough to find). Dr. Tsao is a world famous orthopedic surgeon, and a VERY good hapkido player and teacher. She is awesome! --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Chris Hamilton" To: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:19:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Katrina in Baton Rouge Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Thanks for your concern, perhaps someone else has already replied on this matter, but I am just now reading my accumulated email. Baton Rouge suffered very little damage for the most part. A few trees down and power out for a couple of days. Dr. Kimm and his family are all fine and there was no damage to the dojang. Our biggest challenge here has been the overnight population doubling. Traffic, shopping, eating out etc. is radically different. We've gone from being a moderate sized college town to a seething metropolis in the last 10 days. No one here is complaining however, as our minor inconvenience is insignificant in comparison to the tragedy others have endured or are enduring. We will adapt. I believe we will be absorbing some of the students from the New Orleans area, and we welcome them with open arms. I would also encourage all Hanmudo students affected by Katrina to check in with us at their earliest opportunity by calling the dojang or you can send me an email at ssangsul@ezlock.net and I will make sure Dr. Kimm gets your message. Thanks again and the best of luck to all. Chris Hanmudo in BR --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:27:54 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Quality Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark writes: > I was not suggesting that anyone leave a quality instructor, just > pointing out > what I see as an increasing problem in martial arts that eventually > can cause > us to be lumped in with the WWE and Hong Kong Phooey Hello Mark: Your last post explains much of your views of WKSA. Living where you do allows you access to some of the best WKSA people In have had the pleasure of meeting and working with. The Harmon family, CM Suh in Yoo, and Master Lee byung In are the elite of WKSA and their standards speak volumes; however, this is something that is NOT carried throughout the entire organization. This once again points out that it is much better to stick with an Instructor that has integrity and quality standards (in Kuk Sool as well as ANY other art) than it is to focus on the perceived value of certification. BTW, I did not think that your post suggested people leave their Instructor, and I hope you did not take mine as a slam against WKSA. The ONLY agenda I had was for people to rethink their idea that certification (from ANY organization) is more important than good Instruction. Good Instruction IMHO is the most important, and if you can get meaningful certification on top of that it is a bonus. BTW, having a student test a number of times does not make that student improve or the test better unless there is actual improvement. Some folks I witnessed getting certified had eight stripes on their belt. All that meant in some cases I witnessed was that the student had been allowed to register for testing waaaaay before being ready. That not only puts $350.00 in GMs account NOW, it also keeps the student from leaving because he has invested in a black belt certificate (and perhaps got some false confidence in his actual abilities). Innovative marketing:) Still, that is OK (it does make it easier to prepare for testing if you know WHO is serious about it) IF the standards are adhered to in the end. If not... I am afraid that it is JUST a marketing ploy to get your money before you get discouraged. You see, after six or eight tests, it becomes harder to say NO to the person who is testing, and THAT is why eventually people pass who should not. The alternative is to refund the money, and that is not about to happen in WKSA or most other organizations. When a high ranking Master travels long distances to assist with testing fails a person because he sees deficiencies, it should not be possible for the GM to overturn that decision,.. That is especially important if GM was NOT viewing the test himself. I have been there to see exactly that happen, and that is why I believe that quality control is not as stringent as it is made out to be in WKSA. So, your answer actually supports the idea that good Instructors are more important than wallpaper... we are on the same page my friend. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:36:56 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Jane Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye writes: > Kuk Sool Won's Twin Long Swords Doubly Chilling and > ChallengingByJane HollanderBlack Belt June 1990 Hello Jye: Your post bring back many memories. Few people realize that my late friend Jane probably had more knowledge about Kuk Sool than many of its highest ranking students. He little laptop contained more information on many aspects of the art (and many other arts) than people realized. Whoever got that laptop after her untimely passing received a wealth of martial art information:) Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "66-21" To: Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:44:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ideas for teaching autistic and challenged kids Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a couple of students who have a form of autism, and some other challenging behavioral disorders. We do different drills, and fun activities in class to keep their interest and attention since it is clearly much shorter than the other kids. I have been contacted by another mother whose son is going to start taking lessons, who also has a form of autism. I am looking for any other ideas to do in class that will add to what I already do. We are doing falling, rolling on an exercise ball, and balance activities, plus learning some basics in Tae Kwon Do. If anyone has experienced similar challenges and has other good ideas, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Lance Schutjer Midwest Academy of Tae Kwon Do www.midwestacademytkd.com --__--__-- Message: 11 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:49:59 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] reputation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lorne writes: > The way I see it if someone, no matter their rank or stature, > demean people > in public, spread lies, slanders people's reputations, attempts to > drive > wedges between friends, sabotage other people's personal > relationships and > try to control every aspect of another's life including who they > talk too is > the sorriest excuse for a "humble master" I have ever seen. I for one > defintely do not want to associate or be associated with such an > individual. > If disobeying a person like that is seen as a "betrayal" then as a > group we > have to take a deep look in our souls and ask ourselves some hard > questions. > I, for one, have broken the shackles that once bound me and can > hold my head > up high with a clean conscience and can say without a doubt that > life is > good. People will no doubt recognize that this post is directed at me by one of my former students. I will not engage in rebutting these statements, and people who have known me for many years will see me for what I am. All I can say is best wishes in your new venture Lorne. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 09:26:03 -0700 From: "Curt McCauley" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Phoenix Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You "Play" hapkido? Curt McCauley --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Michael Whalen" To: "dojang digest" Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:36:47 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: quality control Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rudy wrote: " I have personally failed some of the people I tested at WKSA tests only to find them passing that very same test and receive certification. I am not only talking of skill (which may or may not be subject to personal ability adjustments), I am talking of entire sets of techniques that were "circled out" (meaning the student was not taught that or did not know it)." Unfortunately true and I have personally experienced the same. "Furthermore, the GM, who is supposed to be in attendance for every black belt test, rarely observes the test. He usually only presides over the promotion ceremony itself." Again true and extremely saddening "Having said this, I believe Kuk Sool is a great art, and some of the best martial artists I have ever seen practice this art. Some schools in WKSA even have great quality control; however, this is IMHO because of the SCHOOL instructor...not the organization." Well stated. I'm fortunate and this is why I persevere. Respectfully, michael whalen KSWnut --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:26:56 -0400 From: tkdsid@aol.com To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What is taekwondo won? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has anyone here had any dealings with the taekwondo won relative to getting a kukkiwon dan? Sincerely, Sid --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest