Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:35:35 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #375 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: Hapkido in Manhattan, Kansas (Martin Diggins) 2. Padding and Pulling Punches (Bruce Sims) 3. Re: Article: relaxation and extension (Dave) 4. Re: received in the mail (aburrese@aol.com) 5. RE: Article: relaxation and extension (Rick Clark) 6. RE: TKD boxing gloves (tim walker) 7. Tony's Questions on Sparring Gear (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 8. RE: Wrist Injuries (Stovall, Craig) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Martin Diggins" To: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:50:45 +0100 Organization: Codico Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido in Manhattan, Kansas Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A friend of mine is moving from Ireland to work in Kansas State University. He has a black belt in Sin Moo Hapkido (under Master Massan Ghorbani) and is looking to continue training in any Hapkido style available near Manhattan, Kansas. Can anyone offer any advice ? Regards, Martin www.hapkido.ie -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.21/96 - Release Date: 10/09/2005 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 04:01:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Padding and Pulling Punches Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I have been following the various posts on the use of body armour and thought I would wade in with a couple of experiences in my classes. Now since we do not spar and do not use body armour you are certainly encouraged to take what Iam about to say with the suitable condiment of your choice. Probably the single greatest challenge in working with new students is to get them to through stiking or kicking techniques with some meaningful level of authority. The next biggest challenge is to get that same student to throw that technique at another human being. Some of the approaches we use are to strike or kick PAST the partner but coming as close to the intended target as possible. Another approach is to use target bags or kicking shields that let the partners really let-go at their intended target but without actually hitting the partner. One approach that I DO NOT support is the idea of "pulling" a punch. While I can see higher ranks doing this, lower ranks need to be encouraged to make some sort of contact. I have found that it is easier to make contact THEN learn to pull than to learn to pull from the start and then try to force oneself to hit meaningfully. I also think that the idea of actually injuring a partner is WAY over-blown. My beginners almost go to pieces apologizing from the simplest contact tro their partner while training. In Kyokushinkai training, though there was admittedly no contact to the face or groin, I was amazed at how much impact a conditioned body could absorb, and by extension, how much more I had to swat to have an impact BEYOND what I thought would have been a reasonable amount of power. I guess there no real point I am trying to make here as much as just some odd thoughts that came to mind as I was reading peoples contributions. Best Wishes, Bruce --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dave" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Article: relaxation and extension Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 06:54:34 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -snip- One way to have more available energy is to waste less. I wish George Bush would get that idea, but it's a difficult one for a cokehead to grasp. -end snip- Highly inapropriate comment which would lead a person to question the motives and/or general intelligence of the author. Also brings into question any other "info" provided by such a person... Dave Zapencki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:34 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Article: relaxation and extension > Relaxation and extension > > Relaxation and extension are two complementary qualities that are focussed on through much of the training in Gao style, particularly in the variations that come from Chan Chun Feng in Taiwan. > Lets start with relaxation. > In terms of mechanical efficiency a more relaxed body is able to move more freely. It need not overcome its own resistance. This can apply in large movements as found in techniques and forms, but also in smaller movements, like breathing, or even smiling. > > An expression from the Tai chi classics describes this kind of freedom and lightness 'a fly cannot land, a feather cannot touch without setting the whole body in motion.' To give this image a deeper anatomical sense I also like to talk about the surface of the bodies joints. The cartilage that lines the joints, lubricated by synovial fluid is more slippery than ice on ice. A well relaxed and aligned body can move more easily than ice on ice. > > One way to have more available energy is to waste less. I wish George Bush would get that idea, but it's a difficult one for a cokehead to grasp. > > Equally importantly there is a proprioreceptive effect to being more relaxed. If your body is tense it cannot register small forces. Imagine holding out an empty hand with your eyes closed. If someone put a leaf on it you probably feel the added weight (I'm assuming that the leaf is not from a palm tree but something more moderate in size). > > Now imagine the same scenario, but imagine you are holding a weight of several kilograms at the same time that the leaf is added. You probably wouldn't feel the addition of the leaf. > > Our bodies are sensitive not so much to force itself, but to relative changes in force. Start with a big force and it'll take a change proportionate to that force to register. > > This means that if you are relaxed, or applying less force to yourself, you will be more sensitive to changes in your posture. This is very useful in developing alignment and body awareness. > > It takes a little thought to appreciate how a virtuous cycle is created. The more you relax, the more sensitive to your body and alignment you become. The more sensitive you become the more you can make subtle, effective changes in alignment. The better the alignment the easier the relaxation. > > Another important concept in physical relaxation and body awareness is that it is impossible for us humans to do anything without moving, and that involves muscular contraction somewhere along the line. We cannot even express or feel the simplest emotions without there being an effect somewhere in the body. > > Paying attention to tension and relaxation, becoming more open to sensation gives a means to develop a way to be aware of those subtler forces that control mood and thinking, the habitual tension and posture that we tend to carry. This can have wonderful effects on health and peace of mind, though it can also seem like a can of worms sometimes. Still it is fascinating and I recommend it as a way of extending the practise in a deeply personal way. > > Thus relaxation is basic to Ba Gua, and internal arts altogether. As a base you cannot do too much. > > However there comes a point where the degree of relaxation and sensitivity ceases to be useful in the real time application of martial arts. This is a subject many internal artists get mired in and I'd like to clarify it as best I can. > > As the sensitivity starts to notice very subtle relations between posture, tension, emotion and mental states, it loses its relevance in the sphere of combat. > > However the forces involved are such a different order of magnitude to those involved in a punch, kick or throw, that such subtlety is not useful in combat. > > I think a lot of Tai Chi teachers in particular have become confused by the strong but essentially internal feelings this awareness makes available with the kind of forces relevant in combat. After a couple of generations of teachers without combat experience passing on these ideas, lineages forget how to deal with real fighting force. > > It may be possible to use such subtle forces in combat. Again it maybe possible. I think it would require a huge degree of familiarity and relaxation with the forces and rhythms of real fighting to apply such subtle distinctions in a high force high speed situations. That familiarity is more likely to come from free fighting exposure than from solo or controlled practise. > Now lets return to the physical alignment that sensitivity and awareness can develop. Once it is achieved and trained in then your body will be able to deal with large forces and remain relaxed. > > This gives a discernment and sensitivity to external force that allows your body to move in appropriate directions automatically. A useful quality in martial arts. > > Also by staying relaxed it allows the efficient transfer of force from our bodies, and into our opponents. I like to imagine a Newton's cradle, the executive toy with several metal balls hanging on strings. When a ball on one end is dropped so it swings down to hit the next in line, the force is transferred very efficiently. The ball that was dropped stops moving, and the one that was on the far end of the line bounces up with the force. > > In this illustration the string the ball hangs from is like our muscles, it moves freely. If the ball was badly hinged it would not drop with the same force. If you just pushed the ball in place you would not have the effect of the end ball flying up, but rather the whole series of balls would begin to swing. > > Now lets shift our attention to extension, and the long elegant body postures that typify our branch of Gao style. > > Looking at the length, or extension of the postures in our system of Ba Gua it is easy to think that they are too elongated to be practical. I agree in terms of the actual body shapes you find in combat, and at the same time I think this is missing the point. The purpose of elongated postures is rarely to be practical, but to train specific qualities and alignments. It is a developmental tool. > > To extend well it can be helpful to involve the imagination. Imagine going a little bit further while keeping the same relaxation. If you do this the body will begin to align itself naturally. A string when pulled will describe a straight line. It is the same idea here. > > We can extend this model of the body as a single extended string, to the idea of the body as a web of strings held in a three dimensional pattern by our bones and other structures. Thus we can improve on the image of pulling in two directions along the single string, to that of pulling in multiple directions to open up the spaces in the web. > > This use of the imagination , or intention has another aspect. In internal arts many people have a tendency to talk about qi, often without being at all clear about its relevance or place. In this context it is usually better to forget about qi, and remember the idea from the classics 'qi sui Yi' energy follows intention. If there is intention the energy will arrive. > > There is a western equivalent to this quote. ' the body organises itself according to the end result'. If all you consider is the energy then things get confusing and stuck. > > When you combine extension with relaxation effectively you create the conditions which help your body to organise in a different way. Imagine I have my hand and body at full extension and move with my hand against a force at 90 degrees to my arm. Then the degree of extension creates a considerable mechanical disadvantage due to leverage. This mechanical disadvantage makes the intention much clearer, and highlights the necessity of the using the body in a well organised and aligned fashion. > > Much of the time in solo practice the forces we move against are imaginary, products of the mind. Because the forces are imaginary we can maintain a high degree of relaxation while training this particular way of organising the body. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:23:48 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: received in the mail Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: I just received from Paladin Press gratis copies of two items to review for the list: - Close-Range Gunfighting (2-DVDs)- by Gabriel Suarez - The Filipino Fighting Whip - by Tom Meadows I'm anxious to check out both, but am most interested in Tom's whip book. Knowing Tom, I have VERY high expectations. More soon. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com ************************************************* I recieved the Suarez DVDs just before going to CA and then Korea, so I was only able to watch a little of the first one. From what I saw, I think it will be a very good set. When I am back in the states I will be watching them and doing a review for various places as well. Looking forward to what you think of them Ray, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:17:50 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Article: relaxation and extension To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] >One way to have more available energy is to waste less. I wish >George Bush would get that idea, but it's a difficult one for >a cokehead to grasp. What a cheap shot - after reading this statement I did not read further. Rick Clark "Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:53:46 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: TKD boxing gloves Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tony: I read a scholarly dissertation in the Journal of Asian Martial Arts ref: sports injuries that indicated that those that sparred w/the Jhoon Rhee type pads were more apt to be injured due to a false sense of security. The kickees fared better, but the kickers tended to throw harder and get hyperextension type injuries. timo --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:43:21 -0500 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Tony's Questions on Sparring Gear Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Tony, Sparring gear is awkward until you get used to it. You are right that many people use it as a crutch for poor focus and control ability, and students who use it all the time may develop a problem with good focus and control. I use sparring gear in my school at all levels, but in different ways. It protects lower gups while they are developing good control. For higher ranks, it allows significant contact without so many injuries such as cuts and breaks, but also reduces internal and external bruising. So it lets us spar with good contact, but have very few injuries. Danny Dunn <<>>> --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:03:07 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Wrist Injuries Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> For wrists and avoidance of injury, you need to think under two broad categories...joint mobility and strength. Joint mobility is the easiest, and the one that can be easily maintained by simply doing some wrist flexions throughout your day and before practice. Focused sessions can be used in case one has naturally stiff wrists and needs to develop this attribute. Various forward/backward/side flexions as well as rotations will do the trick. There's only so much you can do with your wrist. Internet searches should come up with some good info on movements and routines. Strength is the harder one to address. Unfortunately, when we're talking about wrist strength we're talking more about tendon and ligament strength as opposed to muscular strength. If you are naturally born with big, thick connective tissues then you are in luck and probably don't have to worry too much about this attribute as you may already possess it in abundance. If not, then you're going to have to address your training along two lines...high-rep resistance work and the supporting of very heavy loads. Connective tissues are responsive to high rep work. An obvious one that comes to mind is using extended sessions with a wrist roller. You can buy one or cheaply construct one at home like I did. High rep stick twirling like what can be seen in some styles of Filipino martial arts will also be beneficial. The trick with the high rep work is to do something that drives the blood into the tissue. The connective tissues are not as rich with blood vessels compared to the tissues of the muscles themselves, and it takes the time and reps to get the blood flowing into those areas. Connective tissues are also responsive to the stress from heavy load supports. If you have access to a power rack and a barbell (and a lot of weight), then I would suggest doing rack pulls. Set the pins in the rack high enough so that you will be deadlifting the bar only a few inches, and load the bar with a supra-maximal weight. If you know what your deadlift 1 rep max is, then you will probably be using something in the 120% range of your 1RM for the rack pull (it all depends on your grip strength). Pull the weight off the pins, and do a six second hold. This will greatly stimulate the connective tissues of both the hands and the wrists. Use a double overhook grip as opposed to the mixed deadlifting grip used most often in competitive meets. Caveats...if you don't lift then don't try this method since you probably don't know what I'm talking about to begin with, and your tissues aren't used to regular loads much less heavy support work. Even if you do lift, don't do the heavy support stuff more than 2 to 3 times a month since it will tend to fry the nervous system pretty quick if you over do it. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. 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