Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:21:38 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #384 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: What System (jakskru) 2. Re: Re: Training Clarification (jakskru) 3. Jang's Hapkido, Chicago (AGJ) 4. Re: Padding and Pulling Punches (jakskru) 5. Capoeira (Brian Beach) 6. Caporeira (sam saenz) 7. Re:Capoeira (Beungood8@aol.com) 8. Re: Capoeira (Jeff Hazen) 9. Re: What System - Capoeira? (Jae Stulock) 10. RE: What System - Capoeira? (Gordon) 11. etc... (J R Hilland) 12. Sparring Training Problem (J R Hilland) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What System Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:51:51 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net do you study Hapkido now? if so, where? i only ask because i live in parma and am having a difficult time finding a reputable HKD school....i only know of two in this area, one in fairview and one in north olmstead...any elaboration would be extremely helpful...thanks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jae Stulock" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What System > I've studied Brazilian Jujitsu for a number of years > before Hapkido. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Training Clarification Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:53:44 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net actually, the hogu does provide a bit of a cushion against full bore hits to the body... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lorne Keatley" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:07 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Training Clarification > Hi Bruce, > Well we were sort of talking about the same thing and sort of not I guess. > I have never worn a hogu and I really have no idea what protections that > would give. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: AGJ To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jang's Hapkido, Chicago Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Does anyone have any information on this school located at 6354 W. Grand Ave. in Chicago. Where did Master Jang study? Does the school have a good program? Thank you. AGJ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Padding and Pulling Punches Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:56:37 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net this is true...i know from experience that even after a groin strike that you can keep attacking without feeling the pain right away...for me it was about 40 seconds, which is plenty of time to mount a succesful offense. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Padding and Pulling Punches > Not taking anything away from you....sure using just basic motions can cause damage to a weak area but the difference is he wasn't coming at you with the intent to kill you. What that means is sometimes pure adrenanline (sp?) could make your attacker still continue to try and kill you and then you have shear will. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Brian Beach Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:24:57 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Capoeira Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have this place right down the street from me. http://www.capoeira-angola.org/index.htm They demo a lot at cultural events around the city. One friend of mine that I study hapkido with also studied there. He did catch me with kicks coming from seeming weird angles. What normally looked like an opening (i.e. he looked off balance, overextended) was really a set up. Not unlike a turning back kick. there were traps and trips using the legs as well. Its very deceptive. Tackling him and tying him up worked well though. :P On Sep 20, 2005, at 3:05 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net wrote: > There is alot of gymnastic movement, kicks from > handstands, attacks from cartwheels, ect. Anyone else > know much about it? --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:40:23 -0700 (PDT) From: sam saenz To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Caporeira Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In reference to the capoeira discussion, there is a movie using this martial art called "Only The Strong" featuring Mark Dacascos. Is he Al Dacascos's son? Anyway, it has some excellent capoeira fight scenes. Hope this helps. Sam Saenz IV Dan United Martial Arts Society __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:59:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Capoeira Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At a Hapkido Dojang I used to train at we shared it with a Capoeira group who used the room after us. At their invitation I often stayed and monitored the class. It looks like it would be a lot of fun ,the Brazilians being who they are(good natured and fun)they were very friendly and would explian what they did. This group also trained in Brazilian Juijitsu on one night in between. Your are right about this Art having depth. I think there are two forms of Capoeira Regional and Angola. The latter being more combative in nature but also rarer. They did practice like a dance with Music from a Banjo like instrument called a Rota?? They have some Circuylar spinning kicks similar to Drop Spinning heel kicks but off different angles.the dance you saw it a practice form . I wish I could remember more but it's been a few years since ive seen or talked with them. In a message dated 9/20/2005 3:47:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: I've studied Brazilian Jujitsu for a number of years before Hapkido. Through that study I became aware of another brazilian martial art, Capoeira. Its billed as an African slave form that stems from a basic dance, which is evident in the style. I'd like to see capoeira employed as a martial art. Seems everyone around here (Cleveland, OH) calls it a martial art but all they do is dance to demonstrate it, no sparring. Usually its the same move repeated over and over, a stylized inside cresent kick to handstand. Through my research of the form I am aware of alot more depth to it. There is alot of gymnastic movement, kicks from handstands, attacks from cartwheels, ect. Anyone else know much about it? --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:11:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Hazen To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Capoeira Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There are 2 main styles of Capoeira, as I understand it: Angola (pronounced just like it sounds) and Regional (pronounced like Hay-zhuh-now). From what I have experienced, Angola seems more playful with slightly more tricky moves (more misdirection, etc), whereas Capoeira Regional is often described by locals as "breaky-breaky Capoeira". For both, if fighting someone from another martial art, I'd say their primary strength would be misdirection and trickiness (compared to the relatively telegraphed motions of nearly every other art, when compared side-by-side with Capoeira). Most of my experience (within Capoeira) is with Capoeira Regional, and while it is taught (and practiced) primarily for fun, apparently there are bars "owned" by gangs of Capoeiristas in Brazil, so apparently it works "in the real world" for somebody. ;) In a spirited sparring match (or game, as they'd call it), you could expect most of your throws to end up as a cartwheel or backflip (or some variation thereof) for them, and for what looks to be acrobatic foolishness on their part to actually be a twisting aerial takedown, a set up for a throw, or the classic cartwheel kick to your groin (probably after what you think is going to be an attempted foot sweep on their part). Besides all of the crescent-style kicks you're probably expecting, that is (of which you'd probably see plenty, my favorite being the Meia Lua de Compasso, of of the trademark kicks of Capoeira). The one other one-up the capoeirista may have on you is that playing Capoeira is quite physical -- most of them with as much experience in Capoeira as it would take to be a 2nd gup in most Korean arts will probably be in shape rivaling a lot of near-Olympic-calibre gymnasts. I know I spent probably about 1/4 of my training in one form or another of an inverted position, which does wonders at strengthening your whole body. I was sore in a whole different way than I was after 3 hours of sport TKD drills and sparring. ;) One last fun bit of information... you know that "Zoom zoom zoom" commercial they always play for the Mazda commercials, that's become their slogan? Zum is usually translated as either "the sound a berinbau makes" (a berinbau being a traditional Capoeira instrument), or else "look out", "caution", or "danger". Roughly translated, the version of the "zum zum zum" song I learned is: "Be careful! A man once entered a Capoeira circle and was not careful, and was killed. But Capoeira is for playing. So have fun, and don't get killed." There are many different variations of the song, most of them basically saying to not get carried away and kill the other person playing the game of Capoeira with you. ;) --jeff On Tue, 20 Sep 2005, Brian Beach wrote: BB: I have this place right down the street from me. BB: http://www.capoeira-angola.org/index.htm They demo a lot at cultural events BB: around the city. One friend of mine that I study hapkido with also studied BB: there. He did catch me with kicks coming from seeming weird angles. What BB: normally looked like an opening (i.e. he looked off balance, overextended) BB: was really a set up. Not unlike a turning back kick. there were traps and BB: trips using the legs as well. Its very deceptive. Tackling him and tying him BB: up worked well though. :P BB: BB: On Sep 20, 2005, at 3:05 PM, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net BB: wrote: BB: BB: > There is alot of gymnastic movement, kicks from BB: > handstands, attacks from cartwheels, ect. Anyone else BB: > know much about it? BB: _______________________________________________ BB: The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members BB: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net BB: Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource BB: Standard disclaimers apply BB: http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang BB: BB: --jeff --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:13:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jae Stulock Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What System - Capoeira? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gordon, Thought Jye is an interesting character and I greatly appreciate his posts, I am a seperate entity. ~Jae Stulock Cleveland, Ohio --- Gordon wrote: > I have to agree with Jye. Capoeira has me curious. > What a thrill it would > be to confront someone who could effectively keep > you at bay by doing > cartwheels or kicking with their hands on the > ground. > > All I've seen is the "demo dance" too. I try to > imagine Capoeira at full > speed, landing blows as they cartwheel around you. > > I think it would make me dizzy, but that's something > I'd still like to see. > > > > Gordon > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] What System - Capoeira? Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:35:21 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry Jae. My mistake. Hapki! Gordon Okerstrom -----Original Message----- From: Jae Stulock [mailto:walkswdog2@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 4:13 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What System - Capoeira? Gordon, Thought Jye is an interesting character and I greatly appreciate his posts, I am a seperate entity. ~Jae Stulock Cleveland, Ohio --- Gordon wrote: > I have to agree with Jye. Capoeira has me curious. > What a thrill it would > be to confront someone who could effectively keep > you at bay by doing > cartwheels or kicking with their hands on the > ground. > > All I've seen is the "demo dance" too. I try to > imagine Capoeira at full > speed, landing blows as they cartwheel around you. > > I think it would make me dizzy, but that's something > I'd still like to see. > > > > Gordon > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts > Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang ______________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned by MCI Managed Email Content Service, using Skeptic(tm) technology powered by MessageLabs. For more information on MCI's Managed Email Content Service, visit http://www.mci.com. ______________________________________________________________________ --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:43:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] etc... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You bet! But isn't that the way it always works? Of course these days it appears to be how much money you will spend in some circles. There is a convinced felon who headed the sport group in Seoul for decades, he was a politician and I hear, not even a practitioner. :) <<>> --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:52:17 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Training Problem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Possibly, but not conclusive. Many of the finest martial artists, some who actually saw combat, have nothing to do with sparring, breaking things, or competition. Nor do they practice hitting or kicking people for that matter. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest