Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:39:54 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #386 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Video clip: drunken sword form (Jye nigma) 2. Capoiera (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 3. RE: Capoeira (Howard Spivey) 4. Re: The_Dojang digest, Capoiera (Stovall, Craig) 5. korean arts websites (Jye nigma) 6. video clips:sipalki (Jye nigma) 7. Video clips: sipalki part I (Jye nigma) 8. breaking (Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com) 9. video clip: soft work (Jye nigma) 10. From another group: karate and TKD and internal arts a comparisson (Jye nigma) 11. RE: The Point Sparring Training Problem (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:04:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip: drunken sword form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is for the person who want to see drunken style and it's possible fighting apps: http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/china/1997_beijing_demo/beijing97_drunkensword.mpg Jye even though it's wushu, you can see some fighting apps in the form. --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:32:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Capoiera Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This post will be out of character for me, because I ussually only make post on what I am sure of though documentation or experiance. The facts, historical background, and technical ability of Capoiera practitioners is something I have never given much attention. I certianly respect those that practice the art, and are passionate about it, but as a somewhat experianced martial artist I am skeptical of the realistic application of the art. It seems to be very rythmic. It seems that when sparring an agressive partner of SBD, TKD, HKD etc., where rythem could not be controled by the Capoiera practitioners that they would loose any effective ability they may have had. IMHO it appears the only realistic application of the art is by surprise, which I believe is how it was intented to be used. Also from a Jujitsu practitioners prespctive it appears to offer no real ability to stop a takedown, and cetianly no ability to defend, or match jujtsu on the ground. To practice it as an art IMHO is great, and respectable, to practice it as a means of self-defense seems misguided. Again I do not know enough about the art to make creditable comments. These are just observations form my persective. Respectfully; JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:37:25 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Capoeira Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello, The dance-like footwork that capoeira techniques are delivered from is called the jinga... it's a basic to-and-fro movement (step forward, step back) that they use to set up pretty much everything. The instrument you're referring to is called the berimbau. It looks something like an archers' bow. The string is struck with another instrument called the agogo, and the instrument drones. It's usually used to accompany the capoeristas. It's also a very typical instrument in the folk music from the Northeast of Brazil, around Bahia and Ceara, which is the region Capoeira comes from (no doubt because it's the region with the largest concentration of Brazilians of African ancestry). Sounds like you heard "roda", which is really just the circle they practice from. They do a lot of different spinning kicks, including a drop-spin heel kick (which I think they call the "rasteira"). Cheers... "They did practice like a dance with Music from a Banjo like instrument called a Rota?? They have some Circuylar spinning kicks similar to Drop Spinning heel kicks but off different angles.the dance you saw it a practice form..." --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:54:06 -0500 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Capoiera Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Renzo Gracie told me and a couple of guys a funny story about Capoeira back in 1994 at a seminar. I'm sure everyone on this list knows who I'm talking about when I say the name Jim Kelly. He was a big karate star back in the late 60's and early 70's. Most famous for his roles in 'Enter the Dragon' and 'Black Belt Jones'. Well, later in life he got involved with training in kickboxing, and he also trained jiujitsu with the Gracie family for many years. Well, one day Jim Kelly was at the academy and they had a Capoeira guy come in who wanted to "test out" his stuff in a real fight (this was way back before the UFC). So, Jim Kelly agreed to put on the gloves and go with the guy. Well, Capoeira dude started into his jenga and Jim Kelly rushed in on him and went WHAM WHAM WHAM with his punches. Capoeira dude gets knocked down, and so they go again. He starts the jenga, Jim runs in, WHAM WHAM WHAM, Capoeira dude gets knocked down. Rinse and repeat. I guess there's a few "takeaways" from this story. My takeaway is that maybe this dude sucked at Capoeira. Renzo's takeaway is that he thinks Capoeira doesn't work in a real fight because it's too dependent upon a certain range. In this case, the long range. I kind of have to agree. If your entire game is built around the end of your leg, then you aren't going to be in the fight for long. Things get close in a real fight and there's no room to kick much less spin around and do a cartwheel. Now, there's debate as to whether or not what you typically see as "Capoeira" is actually the "real" stuff or not. All I know is that spinning around and walking on your hands is going to get you stomped on the street. So, if there's another "Capoeira" out there that doesn't involve extensive acrobatics, I guess I haven't seen it yet. All of the Capoeira I've seen looks like mock combat stuff that would get your arse handed to you. Having said all of that...I would actually welcome the chance to train in some of it as I greatly admire the beauty of the art and the athleticism that is required. It's very neat stuff but I'll stick to other things when it comes to fighting. Just two more cents on the subject... --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:21:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] korean arts websites Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thought you guys would like to see some of these...nice pic of GM Timmerman with long hair ;o) on the first link... http://www.nkmaa.ca/index.html http://www.kuksuldo.com/ http://tukong.com/tukong/ http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/hapkido_videos_com.html http://www.ichfcolorado.com/ http://www.ichf.com/ http://www.masteryi.com/index.php http://home.austin.rr.com/cobalis/ http://www.dahnmoodo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clips:sipalki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/IL%20SU%20DERION%203.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/Kom%20Tecnica%20(1).WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/Kom%20Tecnica%20.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/sipalki%20armas.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/sipalki%20ho%20sin%20sul.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/sipalki%20il%20su%20derion.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/sipalki%20il%20su%20derion3.WMV http://www.sipalki-aonikenk.com.ar/escuela/videos/Video%20Defensa%20Personal.WMV --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:46:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clips: sipalki part I Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=VTU=&fl=VygGKAogVW4PbQNlAGlVLwdnU3AEagVuUDkEPFJrW2wAIgZYCztQbVJ6VCAFbgck&dte=B2QFNAtnAmUHMQI4XWlUMFVnUT9QbgcxDD1UNw== http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=Wjk=&fl=VikBL1lzV2wBYwdhB24AegZhATJTOFQyDWMDJFdjWl1WZFc5WmgCJFMnDmxdBANkUAxRawVnUXxRJlBpCyg=&dte=UDMAMQ5iAWYBN1JoUWUEYFxuWjQCPAUzBzYFZg== http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=VTc=&fl=UC8EKllzBT4DYVA2VD0DeVQyAC4GYw1nB2VUaQE3W2pQbgFuAQJXaVI7V3pWJ1ZuViM=&dte=UjFVZAhkUzQHMVJoADRTN1ZkAG5QbgE3ATBXNA== http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=Wj8=&fl=BnlQfgAqADsEZgRiUzpULlE6VWwGeA1nVjgEI1BwDzsEZQMzAQIONAVqAy5cLQU9XCk=&dte=BGcHNg9jAmUCNAE7V2NWMl1vWzVUag07UmMHZA== http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=VDA=&fl=AH9Rfw0nDzQObAZgUjsCeFw3UWgMclA6DWNXcAUlDDhbOgY2WigCIgNo&dte=BmUBMF4yVDMANgQ+UGQAZAQ2WjQAPg07ATADYA== http://www.sipalki-mu.com.ar/download.php?id=VDM=&fl=BHsGKA8lAjkAYlA2Vj8HfVU+UGkMclA6A20OKQMjCz8HZgs4CQpVawRtBShRIAU9UCU=&dte=UDMKOw5iVDMBNwQ+ADQHYwQ2BGoAPgUzDTxUNw== --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 23:26:58 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Soft breaking are you guys refering to relaxed palm breaks? k carter --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:50:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: soft work Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.circularstrengthmag.com/images/softworktrailer.mov --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:44:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] From another group: karate and TKD and internal arts a comparisson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ok here is a discussion some guys were having in another group. Now this person expressed their opinion about what TKD and karate lack and brings up interesting points and then towards the end of the email it's silly...but I want to everyone to read this email and not view it as an attack on the TKD and karate arts, but view it as someone asking to compare karate and kung fu training that way we wont answer based on emotion. Now look at what he said TKD and karate don't have or don't train in and give me your thoughts, whether he's right, partially right or has no clue about what he's talking about. I tried to tell him there are thousands of schools of TKD and many do their own thing, so based on your knowledge of your art, give me your thoughts. Jye ----- Original Message ----- John nothing wrong with keeping it real. Karate is a joke compare to Chinese internal martial arts. The problem with these external styles like TKD and Japanese karate is they have no training methods that teach them how to develop sticking energy for combat. They don't even have short power! (Fa-Jing training methods) All they methods deal with long external power and mid-range combat. So they fighting method is truly limited. Now you see a few practitioners of these hard styles try to fight in short range, but the way they style body mechanics are set up (postures) they body is still to open. Also the fact they don't train any kind of Kun Shou (rolling Hands) or push hands (Tui Shou) to cultivate the sticking and listening energy needed for combat, they hard style will forever stay on the external level of the eyes must see and the body limbs strike, but in the internal the eyes will see, the body will stick and feel, and the whole body will strike as one. The internal arts teach one a level of great sensitivity, something that TKD and Japanese karate will never develop in they practitioners combat skills. Karate has no real energy theory or Qi-gong cultivation practice, if they did then by damn we would be seeing a hell of a lot of old people in the park practicing that art. But you can always find some old people as well young people doing some kind of Tai chi or form of kung fu in a park in the good old U.S.A. All the years I live in N.Y.C I can count on one hand the people I saw in a park practicing some form of karate, one or two people in my whole life. LOL Nov --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. --__--__-- Message: 11 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] The Point Sparring Training Problem Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 13:04:54 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am inclined to agree that these are all pieces to a puzzle. Thankfully I am fit and about 14 stone over 6 feet. I feel confident that I could hold my own in most street fight situations. However I might not. This is why point sparring when used properly with 1 step is good for me. In point sparring I will have to think, not rely on brute force, find or make an opening and then strike. In 1 step my attacking will throw a technique that I will not will not about until it is thrown. I would have to react to it using fingers, knees elbows, head take down etc. the techniques that I counter with I can break boards with. [except take-downs] **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest