Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 14:03:22 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #441 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. ATTENTION!!!! New MAF Free Tournament Location for Saturday, November 12, 2005 (Mabson & Associates) 2. video clip: kicking (Jye nigma) 3. Instructors (gpetrotta@sc.rr.com) 4. Video clip: in search of chi (Jye nigma) 5. RE: Instructors (michael tomlinson) 6. Nov 9, 1945 (Ray) 7. video clip; kO (Jye nigma) 8. Ellis Amdur -- UFTI (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 9. Re: article on hapkido from an aikido point of view (aburrese@aol.com) 10. article: subyok chigi? (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Mabson & Associates" To: Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:41:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] ATTENTION!!!! New MAF Free Tournament Location for Saturday, November 12, 2005 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Attention members and friends of MAF: The "tournament location" has been changed to: The Salvation Army Gym 100 SW 9 Avenue Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33311 (One mile east of the original tournament site) I-95 to Broward Blvd. east to 9th Avenue. After receiving the initial go ahead from Stranahan High this past Friday school officials contacted me Monday evening informing me that due to later discovered hurricane damage I had to cancel the event. I immediately scrambled to find a suitable location before notifying everyone of the change. During my search I found that many of the city and county facilities were severely damaged. Nevertheless, with the aide of friends and the quick support of the local Salvation Army I once again can announce that the annual Free Karate Tournament will go on as scheduled at the above location. Registration will start at 9:00 a.m. and please bring your can food donation. Also, please notify everyone of the new location as there are many who do not have email. I do apologize for any inconvenience the change may cause! Yours in the spirit of martial arts, Larry L. Mabson, founder Martial Arts Foundation --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:31:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: kicking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net what do you guys think of this brother's kicks? http://media.putfile.com/BGZkicks http://media.putfile.com/Some-Basic-kicks-from--Mantis --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: To: Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:53:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Instructors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has any one of you known of a Carroll Shelby, who used to teach in Shreveport, LA? He was a TKD stylist and back in the mid 80's a 6th Dan. Also a Fred Johnson from Springfield, MO who founded F.I.T.? Respectfully, George I. Petrotta ISA Director www.sungjado.org/ isahdq@sc.rr.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 05:59:04 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video clip: in search of chi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://164.58.65.137/media/internal/In_Search_of_Chi.wmv --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Instructors Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 15:20:32 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Didn't he recreate the Ford Mustang!!! LOL Michael Tomlinson >From: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Instructors >Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:53:58 -0500 > >Has any one of you known of a Carroll Shelby, who used to teach in >Shreveport, >LA? He was a TKD stylist and back in the mid 80's a 6th Dan. >Also a Fred Johnson from Springfield, MO who founded F.I.T.? > >Respectfully, >George I. Petrotta >ISA Director >www.sungjado.org/ >isahdq@sc.rr.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:01:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Nov 9, 1945 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 60 years ago today the Moo Duk Kwan was born. Happy B-Day to us! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:16:52 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip; kO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://164.58.65.137/media/internal/bagua/Hsing%2520Yi%2520Beng%5b1%5d.mov --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 11:37:48 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Ellis Amdur -- UFTI Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere Hilland wrote: >"You can buy the book containing the article at ellisamdur.com. Regards, Stanley Pranin." So I guess it is in his "Old School" book, right? Was there a title to the article? I have the book at home, but I don't remember anything about hapkido in there. It sounds like he was espousing the usual koryu view that if it ain't koryu, it ain't real. James Morgan wrote: >Has anyone heard of the United Federation of Taekwondo Instructors before? Present. I have my 4th dan in TKD through the UFTI. The UFTI is a small Midwestern organization that has been teaching since about 1980. It is centered around Indiana University at Bloomington (my alma mater) where the martial arts coordinator Don Burns still teaches. Don trained under Mu-Gil Lee (Sangmukwan) and Ki-Duk Lee (Chidokwan) in Bloomingotn, Indiana, in the 1970s, after doing judo in the 1960s. The forms taught are WTF forms and the emphasis is usually on physical education rather than competition (although we've had some very good competitors in the last few years). The IU TKD Club's webpage is at: http://www.indiana.edu/~iutkd/ It looks like they just revised the webpage, otherwise I could point you to some of the archived photos over there (which included shots of Mu-Gil Lee and Ki-Duk Lee). You can contact Jim Thomas (jfthomas@indiana.edu) if you would like more information on the club. If you would like more information on the UFTI, or if you would like to confirm if someone's black belt is authentic, email djburns@indiana.edu. That's Don's email and he has a list of all certificate numbers for black belts issued through testing at IU. There are several other schools that issue black belts, and he may not have the numbers for them. The UFTI schools are often (but not always) associated also with the US Hapkido Federation (USHF), which has a website at www.hapkido.org. If you are looking for school websites, you can probably find it there under the school listings. Take care, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 12:51:16 -0500 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: article on hapkido from an aikido point of view Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To Both Jere and Michael, Very good comments. I wonder sometimes too. It takes me enough time to continue learning and improving on my hapkido and self-defense skills while trying to be a better instructor. Where do you find the time to devote that much time into multiple arts? Oh wait, you don't have to? You just get multiple dan rank from different organizations based on what you already know? So my years in Hapkido entitle me to rank in several other arts too? Cool. Maybe my seven years in college entitle me to different degrees than I was awarded. I think I'll write Harvard tomorrow and ask them for a law degree. University of Montana gave me one, so maybe they will give me one too. Then I'll write Stanford and ask them to send me a Business degree on the same basis. I'm sure if I enclose big enough checks they will be glad to send out the diplomas. Obviously this is all tongue in cheek, but it does illustrate a problem. It is too bad that people?s self-worth does not come from within and what they know and can do, rather than what is wrapped around their waist or hanging on the wall. I?m all for being rewarded for what you earn, and being proud of your accomplishments. And there is nothing wrong with using credentials to help promote yourself and your business. Heck, I let people know I attended mediation training at Pepperdine Law School. It is one of the best programs in the country, and the credential can help grow my mediation practice. So that?s not a bad thing. But collecting rank to promote yourself in the martial arts without actually putting the time in the arts, well? I still think the Mr. Miyagi character is the model to follow. Karate (substitute any martial art) is in here (pointing to heart) not here (pointing to belt). It?s not on the wall either. If I stopped teachings, stopped writing about Hapkido and martial arts, and stopped doing instructional products of all kinds, I would still study and train, because it is a part of me. And when it comes down to it, that is what is most important. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 10:21:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] article: subyok chigi? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subyok Chigi: Penetrating the veil of secrecy Andrew Salmon Despite a cutting-edge IT infrastructure, Koreans are not known for their free and frank sharing of information. Ask any foreign investor what difficulties he faces in the local business environment, and transparency is certain to be near the top of the list. But at least today's Korean corporates are beginning to understand that disclosure is in their best interests. Consider, then, the frustrations experienced by man who has made it his life's work to delve into perhaps the most secretive aspect of Korea's deeply conservative culture: traditional martial arts. "Taekwondo and modern martial arts are normally very commercialized," says Mr. Yook Tae-ahn, today the sole active master of Korea's oldest extant martial art, Subyok Chigi, a practice first mentioned in the Koryosa ("History of Koryo") of 1147, "but the real, traditional systems were kept hidden from the outside world." How secretive are these arts? Few know they even exist. In search of the lost arts It was during the 1980s, in the midst of Korea's economic boom, that Mr. Yook, then a Hapkido student in his 30s, decided to search out the old, native martial arts rather than Korea's modern, Japanese-influenced styles. His recommendations came by word of mouth - "I would hear of a guy who did certain practices" - but when he traveled to meet the person in question, he often found the master already passed away, or was too sick or old to teach. Those who did have background were intensely secretive -"These were not mystical masters on mountain tops, these were regular guys with regular jobs, but sometimes even their families did not know they practiced." Such men would not teach an outsider. Their closed doors had a long tradition. "In the Koryo Dynasty, martial artists were respected persons," says Mr. Yook. "But when Koryo was overthrown in 1392 and the Yi Dynasty established, martial artists were forced into the army or were looked down upon in favor of scholars." He believes that it was during this dynasty, and later during the Japanese colonial period (1910-1945) that practitioners became so intensely secretive. "Martial artists were suppressed [by the rulers] during those eras; I believe some became assassins," he says. However, he states that the real damage to Korea's home-grown martial traditions took place from the 1950s onwards. "Many practitioners were killed during the Korean War, and after the war, they had no food, no money, and so could not practice." He also hints that from the 1960s -1980s, the dominant organizations marketing Korea's modern martial arts both locally and internationally, deliberately suppressed the older styles. By the late 1980s, his search for these lost arts had become dispiriting - until he met Shin Han-seung. Mr. Shin was one of the last two masters of Taekkyun, a traditional folk martial art. "I wanted to learn Taekkyun from him," says Mr. Yook, "but when I met him, he was researching Subyok Chigi. He wanted to pass on what he had learned." Mr. Shin had tracked down a practitioner of that art, but he died in 1987 - suddenly, of cancer. Mr Yook was left with little but Mr. Shin's personal notes on Subyok. Among these was a single sheet of A3 sized paper on which were scribbled a series of notes and sketches. Also on the sheet were names and contact details. And at the bottom, a cryptic message: "Live like a grinding stone." At the master's gate Mr. Yook traveled to the address mentioned in the notes, in the central Korean market town of Chungju. He knocked on the door. It was opened by an older man. As soon as he say him, a strange shock of recognition hit Mr. Yook: "I just knew this man was a master!" He immediately requested teaching. The man flatly denied any knowledge of martial arts, and made to close the door. Mr. Yook begged entrance, telling him he had traveled far. The host grudgingly acquiesced, and the two sat down to drink tea. As they drank, the man told Mr. Yook, "Life is like a stone beancurd bowl: When you are grinding beancurd, you must turn the pestle only one way - if you turn it the opposite way, it will splash up. Always go with the flow, the natural way." The scrawl at the bottom of Mr. Shin's notes sudden sense. It was the first lesson. Mr. Yook had finally found his man. Mr. Yook later returned to Chungju with Mr. Shin's notes. He asked the old man again if he had any martial knowledge. The man conceded, guardedly, that he might. After a series of meetings, the master at last admitted his skill and slowly began to reveal it: He was, indeed, a master of Subyok Chigi (literally, "striking or clapping with the hands;" also romanized as Subak). His nickname was "Il-dong." Over the course of five years, Mr. Yook was initiated into Subyok. It took him that long to learn the material on that one sheet of A3 he had inherited from Master Shin. At Il-dong's house, he was only once introduced to another practitioner of Subyok, though he never learned his name. That man confided that Il-dong had other students, though he had never met them. At the end of the five years, the master told Mr. Yook, "I have taught you everything. Don't come again, not even to my funeral. I live on in the movements I have taught you." Even so, Mr. Yook continued to visit, though he learned nothing more. His teacher still lives in Chungju, but is today not teaching at all, preferring to spend his time with his grandchildren. "He was uneducated, and hence of a low social status," muses Mr. Yook. "I think that is why he did not make his knowledge public; he did not want people to look down on this art." Revealing a hidden tradition Mr. Yook now considers his life's work to be the creation of a rational syllabus that will lead to a resurrection of the art. The moves he demonstrates in his well-maintained southern Seoul training hall today are fluid and rhythmic series. No observer would confuse it with Taekwondo or Hapkido, though he says that martial artists with previous experience are a step up in learning it. He calls Subyok "swordfighting without a sword," and extensive use is made of the stabbing hand. Unlike modern martial arts, kicks are kept generally low. There is a range of trips and throws, and short swords and sticks are also utilized. Subyok's warm-ups exercise the spine, and, uniquely, include a number of clapping movements, which Mr. Yook claims help in unifying body, mind and spirit. He has published books on the art's health-giving side, and has also demonstrated Subyok at festivals in Avignon, France, Amsterdam, Holland, and Brussels, Belgium. "There are no set 1-2-3 form sequences in Subyok," explains Mr. Hong Jun-eui, 37, a salaried man who came to Subyok after training in Taekwondo and Hapkido. "Nor are there forceful moves like Taekwondo and Karate; it is natural movement, and movement principle. But once you learn the principles, you can create 1000 forms of your own." Mr. Hong also stresses that the art is culturally suited to Koreans, who will immediately recognize movements and rhythms from Korean dance. Paradoxically, power is built into the softness. "Although we do not do hard, breaking exercises, I was surprised to find, after training in Subyok for a time, that I could hit the punch bag with greater force," says Mr. Hong. Mr. Yook is not in favor of the modern trend towards no-holds barred martial arts. Instead, he prefers to teach the artistic and healthful aspects. "This art is not about fighting, it is about finding your central equilibrium," he says. "Sparring and fighting are parts of martial arts, but not the whole." While he does not keep Subyok secret, he does not take on beginners - only those with extensive experience in other martial arts, as well as actors and dancers are accepted for training. He believes the art he took so much trouble to find and learn is profound. "Martial arts cannot be sport," he says. "They are mankind's pinnacle of achievement in the blending of physical culture and spirit." Web site: www.subyokchigi.com ENDS --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest