Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:23:20 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #443 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. video clip: baji (Jye nigma) 2. different centers (Jye nigma) 3. The Challenge (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: article on hapkido from an aikido view point (s. yates) 5. several items... (J R Hilland) 6. New Collaborative Weblog for Korean History (Ray) 7. Re: Ellis Amdur (Christopher Spiller) 8. RE: different centers (michael tomlinson) 9. RE: several items... (michael tomlinson) 10. RE: several items... (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 06:56:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: jyesluv@hotmail.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: baji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://164.58.65.137/media/internal/asia-baji.wmv --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:41:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] different centers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey everyone. This is for those who study korean martial arts which offer internal training.... Can someone tell me the differences between the way korean internal martial arts center themselves versus the chinese internal arts? I heard they're different but don't know the exact reason how. jye --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:20:38 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] The Challenge Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I have been issued a challenge by Mr. Scott Yates, a proponent of the SIN MU Hapkido and I have no doubts that taking him up on his challenge will test every part of my Hapkido training of the last 20 years. Funny thing is, I am not sure Scott would have seen his e-mail to me as a challenge, but let me review a bit about my short career in the Hapkido arts and lets see if you folks concur. For some years now I have been complaining about a number of situations in the Hapkido arts. One of the major complaints has been the divided nature of the arts. Its bad enough that we have 6 major Hapkido traditions or organizations, but we also have a host of lesser organizations as well. And even THAT is not the real issue. The REAL issue is that you usually cannot get the practitioners of these various entities to interact productively with each other---- sometimes even civil-ly with each other----for more than a little bit at a stretch, under the best of conditions. The other major bitch I have had has been with the leadership of the various Hapkido arts. Its bad enough that each leader has his own pririties, history, views of leaders, messages to his students and relationship to lineage, Choi, Korea, etc etc etc. Even worse these leaders have done little or nothing to heal-up old wounds and reconcile their differences for the betterment of their arts and relationship to other arts. In his writings, the author Joseph Conrad has the narrator of his novel LORD JIM ask rhetorically, "who among has not asked God for a second chance?" With no window into the hearts of the passing generation of Hapkido leadership I cannot know if they have ever made such a request looking back on their stewardship of their particular arts. I know as a pratitioner, I, for my part, have often played the American game of "if you had it to do over again.....". But as one of the more modest practitioners in the hierarchy of Hapkido leadership I have little or no way of instituting such ground-breaking efforts. Like the rest of Humanity, most of the time I have to wait first to see if God wills that such a second chance will come to be. Apparently, sometimes His mercy is more than I deserve. And that is when I get a challenge from Scott Yates via e-mail. Next year we have not ONE but TWO opportunities to change the Hapkido community in a way unprecedented in the previous 50 years. Scott sent me an invitation to attend the first ever Hapkido symposium on the occasion of the 70th birthday of Ji, Han Jae. For once leaders of Hapkido arts and organizations can have a reason and a purpose to come to a single place to reconcile in a way that our previous generation might never have considered. As I am sure many are aware of, the 70th birthday of an individual in the Korean culture holds a special meaning. And I think I can say without fear of contradiction that GM Ji holds a pivotal point in the leadership of the Hapkido arts that we have come to know as Modern Hapkido. But 2006 also holds the unique place in Hapkido history for also being the 20th anniversary of the passing of Choi, Yong Sul and in celebration of this huge event there is currently also an event being organized in Korea to mark the occasion with a Hapkido Exposition with similar invitations being extended to leaders of various Hapkido arts and organizations to come together to display their material and pay their respects to the man from whom our modern era marks its beginning. Scott's challenge to me is not to choose between these two evets. Scott's challenge to me is whether or not I choose to recognize the potential in either of these events to reshape the Hapkido community as never before. Consider the implications. 1.) The initial American Hapkido Symposium could easily become a venue for resolving a host of issues that we have long debated and discussed on Nets just like this one. Among these might be the place and introduction of variance to our teachings, establishing common terminology, identifying common fundamentals, reconciling alternative tradiions and many others. 2.) An occasion such as the birthday of a patriarch is traditionally a time for family members to reconcile and to affirm the solidarity of the family. What our previous generation may not have been able to do, perhaps we present stewards may be able to accomplish, yes? 3.) What we might accomplish once, could easily be accomplished again, yes? Would the legacy of someone such as Ji or Choi be so short as only to touch on their immediate students? Could these men not have left us also a way of inter-relating with honor in the long-term as well? If you have answered "yes" to any or all of these points then you also have received the challenge from Scott as have I. The fact is that hidden in the two invitations for the year 2006 is the questions as to whether we will actuall put our actions where our talk has been. We have plenty of lead time to make our plans and gather resources. We have enough time to make connections and organize agendas. But the "challenge" is not to identify what we will do, but to understand whether we actually have the will and the best interests of our arts that we will actually DO IT. After 50 years, we have been granted a SECOND CHANCE to have the Hapkido arts move in a different direction than it has for these last 5 decades. Are we up to it? Best Wishes, Bruce _________________ Bruce W Sims 4th Dan, Yon Mu Kwan Hapkido 3rd Dan, Hwa Rang Gum Bup 5th Guep Yong Sul Kwan Hapkiyusool --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 08:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: "s. yates" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] article on hapkido from an aikido view point To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Hilland, I find the article you were refering to interesting. I have had three non HKD major organizations offer me, through a high ranking official, equivelent rank in their systems with minimal effort. I respectfully declined, and found it to be true of many organizations out there. In no way did this lessen my respect of these organizations, since there are recruitment efforts in every large system out there. We certainly recognize there is a significant difference between a systematic, time oriented, earned belt and one that is honorary. The best will always rise to the top, and the others will squander for position or find another group to accept them. I believe Hapkido's standards over the years have risen based on the number of subsystems that have broken off of the true GM's. Those who follow the traditions and do not excluded that which is not working for them, have kept the standard strong and alive. This has allowed for the people who are of a direct lineage to stand out on their own. The following years are going to prove well for the Hapkido families and we will finally be able to come together, share and progress as a unit rather than a private island. I look forward to 2006 as being a monumental year for Hapkido, with so many events and gatherings of masters across the globe. I hope to see you at the Hapkido Summit in OCT 2006. You can find info at goldmedalfamilykarate.com or look for the full page notice in the TKD Times magazine issues from DEC on. Respectfully, Scott Yates SinMoo Hapkido New Jersey --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:45:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] several items... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Alain, that was funny. But if the shoe fits? :) I just responded to an email from a skilled taekwondoin who attended one of my hapkido workshops last year as he was fascinated with the art and could not find the real deal in his area as he lives several states away. He honestly wanted to know if the hapkido black belt video program advertised in tkd times would be worth it. My response was simply, "do you, or would you train in taekwondo that way? Of course not." That makes me ask, do ANY of the other martial arts (from all countries) have the problem with instant rank? Dakin, the title to the article was " Conversation with Daito-ryu's Other Child". I hope everyone enjoys this weekends get together in Jackson. I wish I was there... "Dr. He Young Kimm (yudo 9th dan) and GM J. R. West (hapkido 8th dan) will conduct a two day Korean Martial Arts seminar on Saturday, Nov. 12th and Sunday, Nov. 13th, 2005. Friday night will be an open class with the West's HapKiDo Mutants. Saturday will feature a Judo and Yudo seminar by Dr. Kimm, and Sunday will be an advanced Hapkido motion seminar by GM West. The seminar will be held at "West's Hapkido Academy" in the Jackson, MS suburb of Ridgeland." www.hapkido.com I just completed reviewing the entire hapkido video at http://www.customflix.com/Store/ShowEStore.jsp?id=207282. 2 thumbs up! Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:07:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] New Collaborative Weblog for Korean History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... Hello everyone, I'm pleased to announce that there is a new Korean history group weblog to be found at: http://froginawell.net/korea/ This weblog is both for a general and academic audience and its authors are all graduate students or professors working on East Asian history. We will be expanding our roster of contributors over the next few weeks. Postings will broadly relate to the study of Korean history but there will also be transnational and interdisciplinary postings. You can find a more detailed introduction to the project and its goals here: http://www.froginawell.net/korea/2004/08/welcome-messsage/ This is the third and newest multilingual academic group "blogs" being hosted at Froginawell.net. Frog in a Well has also recently started a bi-monthly "Asian History Carnival" which compiles excellent weblog postings from around the web related to Asian history. The Korean history weblog has two major goals: 1) To share research, useful resources, and promote discussion between students and scholars studying Korean history, especially between those in Korea and those active elsewhere. Comments (which are moderated) to postings are welcome in either Korean or English. 2) To promote the use of weblogs as a productive medium of communication and publication in the academic world. We believe that projects like this will not only be useful to our peers but help us reach and interact with wider audiences who share our interest in East Asian history. The RSS feed for the new site can be found at: http://www.froginawell.net/korea/feed/ Questions about the project may be directed to: frog AT froginawell DOT net K. M. Lawson --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 09:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ellis Amdur Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin Burdik wrote: >>"You can buy the book containing the article at ellisamdur.com. Regards, Stanley Pranin."<< >So I guess it is in his "Old School" book, right? Was there a title to the article? I have the book at home, but I don't remember anything about hapkido in there.< I don't recall a title of a book being mentioned. I did read the article shortly before it was brought up on the list, however. It's title, IIRC, was "Daito Ryu's Other Child" (or something similar). There are no chapters with such a title in either _Dueling with O-Sensei_ or _Old School_ so I assume it will appear in a forthcoming publication. >It sounds like he was espousing the usual koryu view that if it ain't koryu, it ain't real.< No, this is inaccurate. Amdur has rarely espoused such a view that I have seen. While I don't own his books I have read several articles he wrote for "Aikido Journal" and found such a view lacking from his work. The article in question was basically him saying that despite certain differences, hapkido had much in common with Daito Ryu. As for the attitude that"if it ain't koyu, it ain't real," I think this has to be understood in context. Frankly, I have little trouble with it. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] different centers Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:01:35 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You first....tell us what you heard the differences were....Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] different centers >Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:41:00 -0800 (PST) > >Hey everyone. This is for those who study korean martial arts which offer >internal training.... > >Can someone tell me the differences between the way korean internal martial >arts center themselves versus the chinese internal arts? I heard they're >different but don't know the exact reason how. > >jye > > > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] several items... Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 19:15:53 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere writes: He honestly wanted to know if the hapkido black belt video program advertised in tkd times would be worth it. My response was simply, "do you, or would you train in taekwondo that way?>> I would never train this way in the martial arts...but I have to admit....I have viewed a couple of videos about the Kama Sutra that did seem to help my "technique" out a bit!!!! LOL Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] several items... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net LMAO...you're a bad man! lol. hey did you know they have a chi kung for lovers video? lol Jye michael tomlinson wrote: "...but I have to admit....I have viewed a couple of videos about the Kama Sutra that did seem to help my "technique" out a bit!!!! LOL..." --------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest