Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 03:01:49 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #472 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: India (kevin_janisse) 2. Re: Brick break (Craig Zeigler) 3. Re: Bruisers vs. weenies.... (Stovall, Craig) 4. Breaking for 1st Dan (Gordon) 5. india----internal vs external (instructor@realtaekwondo.com) 6. Re: India (Benjamin Nall) 7. Re: Breaking for 1st Dan (Tim) 8. RE: Re: India (michael tomlinson) 9. Spreading the art (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. Re: Brick break (Ray) 11. brick break (freddie bishop) 12. Brick breaking (Don Kirsch) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "kevin_janisse" To: Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 21:01:42 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: India Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lets go back ever further with King David (Yes the old testament King David) recording martial art techniques taught to his soldiers. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/190 - Release Date: 12/1/2005 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 05:57:59 -0500 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Brick break Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tim wrote: >I need some help in preparing to break a brick. I have been practicing with my >feet and with an axe kick it pretty easy. I am however having trouble with my >hands. Are the bricks that we have today the same as what was used all along? >I am a pretty strong guy and cant break a 1 inch thick piece of cinder. What >is wrong??? > >Thanks, >Tim >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > Brick breaking with your hand is all in technique (go figure). The idea is to make sure you're using your whole body and not just your arm. The mistake most folks make is they say 'I'm very strong, so it'll be easy.' when in fact the brick isn't going to break unless your hit it correctly. Consider biomechanics. Also keep in mind that you can't push through the brick, you need to have some snap tot he blow so the brick won't just absorb the energy. Good luck with your break.. I am still quite proud of the 4 I broke during my 1st dan test, and they're still in my closet. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 08:34:20 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bruisers vs. weenies.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> I think there is some truth in what Bruce is saying and what you are echoing in this statement. HOWEVER, I'd just like to point out that it's not always the big, male, mesomorphic jock that will show up and hang in there for training that is mentally and physically demanding. The two most important factors are desire and mental toughness. The people who want to be there and do it will show up and train, and the folks that want to stand around in pressed uniforms and occasionally beat up the air will find an environment that suits their needs. I have known many a small lady and "athletically challenged" males who went in for the hard training. The single common factors are the WANT to be there and the mental toughness ("fighting spirit" for a more common martial term) to stay around when things are tough. The flip side of that is the fact that I've had a LOT of so-called "jocks" and "tough guys" come in who just couldn't take it. One who comes to mind is a very burly fellow who has had more bar room brawls and emergency room visits than most 10 convicted felons. He just couldn't hack it with us, and decided not to come back when he discovered that knocking down drunks is a far cry from getting on the mat with trained martial artists. Have had several powerlifters come in and get their paradigms shifted when a smaller male staples their ass to the mat and twists their limbs with impunity. Tough, strong guys...but they just couldn't take it mentally and physically. I am ALL ABOUT physical strength and development because I think it's critical for a martial artist who wants to entertain the idea that they can really do something, but the difference between the folks who can hack it and who can't is all between the ears. <<>> And this is a very excellent point. What many people don't get to learn about martial arts is the fact that if they'd just stick around a little while longer they will find out things about themselves that they never dreamed. The hard training exposes the inner strength that most all of us possess...the trick is sticking around long enough for it to blossom. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:00:48 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking for 1st Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig wrote: "I am still quite proud of the 4 I broke during my 1st dan test" This got me curious. I broke 12" x 12" x 1" pine for 1st Dan. So, I guess I would like to hear what everybody else does for their testings. I broke 3 boards, 5 ways. (3 boards - punch, 3 boards - knife hand, 3 boards - front kick, 3 boards - round kick, 3 boards - side kick) Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 09:14:31 -0800 From: instructor@realtaekwondo.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] india----internal vs external Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hence, you taking the stance that Korean and Japanese martial arts owe something to, or are somehow inferior to, Chinese martial arts, is just as ridiculous as me saying that all martial arts originated in India. My main comment is not to brag about who came from where....its about the fact that people are talking about internal (ki or chi) and korean arts and they don't know the first thing about internal to begin with. There are no korean arts that are purely internal. Most korean arts are external. Even Hapkido, I don't consider internal. Yes, they do build ki, but they are building hard ki or chi (japanese influence- they train with ki the same way). It is a known fact not myth that korean arts had their own kicking art, but they were heavily influence by the chinese and japanese in just about everything else (Moo yei do bo tong gi). How they put it all together is all Korean. eddie urbistondo --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 12:22:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Benjamin Nall" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: India Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Hmm, I don't think it is a myth as much as a perspective of general consensus based upon the information that others have gathered- I certainly didn't arrive at the conclusion myself that the known data points to India as being the source of most of the 'known' martial arts that have currently exist in Asia. Obviously the point I was trying to make was lost and the statement, however over-generalized, was taken out of context. Hence, I'll try to say it more concisely: Saying that Chinese martial arts are somehow the 'source' of internal practice and are (therefor) better than Japanese or Korean (or any other, for that matter) martial art is inaccurate at best when it is the general consensus that Chinese martial arts originated in, or were largely affected and influenced by, Indian martial arts. Of course, you might be able to insert philosophy, religion, metalurgy and other concepts in there as well... BongSoo --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Breaking for 1st Dan Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:47:33 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We break 10 1x12s that are randomly held in a circle around us using what ever strike we want as long as it is a continuous flow. Then we break a 1" piece of cinder. ( the brick) Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon" To: Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 10:00 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Breaking for 1st Dan > Craig wrote: "I am still quite proud of the 4 I broke during my 1st dan > test" > > This got me curious. I broke 12" x 12" x 1" pine for 1st Dan. So, I > guess > I would like to hear what everybody else does for their testings. > > I broke 3 boards, 5 ways. (3 boards - punch, 3 boards - knife hand, 3 > boards > - front kick, 3 boards - round kick, 3 boards - side kick) > > Gordon Okerstrom > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: India Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:11:36 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hence, I'll try to say it more concisely: Saying that Chinese martial arts are somehow the 'source' of internal practice and are (therefor) better than Japanese or Korean (or any other, for that matter) martial art is inaccurate at best when it is the general consensus that Chinese martial arts originated in, or were largely affected and influenced by, Indian martial arts. Of course, you might be able to insert philosophy, religion, metalurgy and other concepts in there as well...>>> I pretty much have to agree with this statement...didn't Boddhidharma come to China from India and start most of the Gung Fu style MA's through Buddhism? We can all trace things back to the point where we will be arguing over the chicken or the egg.... On the matter of internal vs. external...or hard and soft...etc..IMO...a complete martial art will have both and one will not be more prevalent than the other...IF you are trying to label your style as hard or soft or uses chi, instead of ki etc....I think you are missing the point...balance is the point...when you look at yin yang or um yang or whatever you want to call it...don't see two halves...see the whole...the two make the complete circle and they are equal and they are in constant motion and circling... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 15:47:15 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Spreading the art Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you Master McCauley for your efforts to spread Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. I look foward to seeing my students open their own schools. I have one E-Dan that has opened a school, and like you said it is great to be at one of his Gup test and see his students test. I feel like a grandparent to them, and it makes me appreciate my linage. Grandmaster Hwang Kee Grandmaster HC Hwang Kris Poole Sa Bom Nim "me" This makes me proud to be affiliated with the Moo Duk Kwan organization and to know other members like you. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Brick break To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 15:21:51 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I need some help in preparing to break a brick. I have been practicing with my > feet and with an axe kick it pretty easy. I am however having trouble with my > hands. Are the bricks that we have today the same as what was used all along? > I am a pretty strong guy and cant break a 1 inch thick piece of cinder. What > is wrong??? Try thinking of throwing a baseball. Proper follow thru, etc. Now think of throwing that baseball thru a brick placed about a foot in front of your release point. Now think of your hand as the baseball. Make the obvious necessary adjustments and throw your hand thru the brick. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:15:44 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] brick break Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tim, I broke my first brick with knifehand strike when I was 15. My, instructor, Master Young Chul Chung, formerly of Kokomo, IN told me 90% of the break is mental. He had me practice the knifehand strike on a heavy bag, he said if my balance isn't right it will show up while hitting the bag. After he was satisfied with my performance on the bag he had me strike something with a harder surface, a lightly padded post he had bolted to the floor. After a month or so he had me do the technique on the brick, a 1" thick cement patio brick. Remember to follow through. Fred __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 19:22:45 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Brick breaking Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tim wrote, "I need some help in preparing to break a brick...". Tim, As someone who use to do a lot of hard style breaking but now only occasionally does "soft style" breaks, the essence of your problem may be contained in your post. You stated you "can't break " the 1 inch cinder brick. I say this not sarcastically but as advice to use when doing any breaks (or for that matter any thing you choose to accomplish) until you can really see the visual image in your minds eye of accomplishing the break and really believe you can do the break it most likely won't happen. Breaking is all about physics but its also all about the old "mind over matter" concept. You need to be using the correct technique from both a physical and mental standpoint. Just my opinion. Regards, Don Kirsch --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest