Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 19:19:22 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #478 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Thank You (Amcreva Drogovah) 2. Re: broken boards and bricks...what to do? (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 3. RE: Martial CRYING FIST (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 4. Keeping Broken Boards (Felicity Catherine Jones) 5. Lopez Family (Dave Zapencki) 6. discarded boards (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Sigh, smart sparring (Richard Tomlinson) 8. A troll? (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Amcreva Drogovah" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 08:00:32 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thank You Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you all very much for the tips, I will do my best to incorporate them into my sparring.  Thanks again. Amcreva Drogovah ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:02:04 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: broken boards and bricks...what to do? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net for broken boards: 1. great for firewood 2. have that new tough guy in class try to break the halve-sies...trust me, he'll try ;) 3. throw them at pets or children when they misbehave. surprising aerodynamics! ;) 4. yes, i've had one or two signed and dated by a master after a significant rank test. for broken bricks: 1. have had several folks use them in their gardens 2. path bricks for yard 3. have misbehaving students hold horizontal knife hand strike in position with half brick in hand. (i know james morgan will be trying this one...lol). 4. one year, i placed two halves next to eachother, drew a big heart and "sweetheart brick" across the pieces. wrapped them up and gave them to my brother and sister in law (one half each) as a gag gift. little did i know they loved the idea and now have them in their garden. take care, melinda :) Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Martial CRYING FIST Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 20:45:00 -0000 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Has any one on the digest heard of this Korean movie? I am hoping to see to soon. **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:06:05 +1100 From: Felicity Catherine Jones To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Keeping Broken Boards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken, you asked if we keep significant boards. I have the first board I ever broke. I broke it with a downwards kick. Felicity 5th Gup --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Dave Zapencki" To: Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 15:37:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lopez Family Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From SI.com. My Sportsman Choice: Lopez Family Posted: Thursday December 1, 2005 12:35PM; Updated: Thursday December 1, 2005 12:35PM By Brian Cazeneuve The most overworked garage in Sugar Land, Texas, looks like a disaster site. The place is filled with typical oil stains and soot, but how did so many holes get in one wall? Does no one know how to drive in the Lopez household? "It looks like a home for blind drivers," Jean Lopez recalled recently. Last April, in Madrid, the Lopez family -- Steven, 27, Mark, 23, and Diana, 21 -- pulled off an unprecedented athletic feat. Each won gold medals at the World Taekwondo Championships while the eldest of the four siblings, Jean, himself a former world medalist, was the head coach. It was the third world title for Steven, who won gold medals at the 2000 and 2004 Olympics and is making a case for himself as the greatest fighter of his era. Mark and Diana won their first world crowns. The NHL once sported six Sutter brothers, who, in another life, might have made pretty good martial artists themselves. The major league catchers' union has a monopoly on Molinas. And what's a tennis tournament these days without Williams and Williams with commentary from McEnroe and McEnroe? Still, nobody at the USOC -- or anywhere else -- seems to know of three siblings reigning simultaneously at the top of their sporting empires. This reign had modest beginnings. Ondina and Julio Lopez came over from Nicaragua 33 years ago and lived in a housing project in New York City before settling in the Houston area. They welcomed their children's errant kicks so long as the kids made it back up in one piece for mandatory family dinners. At the table, Ondina and Julio not only preached the values of hard work and discipline, but also character, politeness and respect for elders. Perhaps by accident, many of those traits gave the children a leg up in their taekwondo careers. They were known as good listeners, tireless practitioners and always tight family members: When Steven celebrated his triumph in the 149-pound class at the Sydney Olympics in 2000, Jean, who was a spectator at those Games, and Diana, both hopped over barricades to embrace their brother, only to be restrained by police. Little has held them back since then. Jean was promoted to Olympic team coach in 2004, when Steven earned the only U.S. men's berth available, at welterweight (176 pounds). He did so by beating Tony Graf at the Olympic trials after Graf had beaten Mark Lopez in the semifinals, thereby preventing a sibling final for a place on the Olympic team, a matchup neither brother especially wanted. Steven has gone from being a member of the National Honor Society to one of People magazine's 50 Hottest Bachelors. Diana won two world titles as a junior and lost in the finals of the Olympic trials last summer. In Madrid, she won five featherweight bouts, outscoring foes 28-9. As Diana accepted her gold medal on the victory stand, Mark, 23, the stylish showman of the family, tried to psych himself for his fight without losing composure over his sister's victory. He had long coveted his own world title, and most observers knew it was only a matter of time. In 1999, he had become the youngest world medalist in the sport's history when he won a bronze. In 2003, he upgraded to silver, losing on a controversial technicality despite having knocked out his Korean opponent as time expired. In Madrid, Mark outlasted Korea's Song Myong-seob, 7-6, to win his gold medal. The Lopez's accomplishments alone would be enough to merit SI's Sportsmen (or Sports Family) of the Year, but then I think back to the aftermath of the finals in Sydney. An hour or so after Steven won the Olympics for the first time, he and his family walked with me to the SI offices in the main press center in Sydney to phone their mother, who is a notoriously nervous viewer and generally prefers to stay home. It was a simple enough gesture, but I cannot recall being thanked, nor called Sir, so often in my life -- even by Julio, the father. For now, the Lopez family can dream of more Olympic glory and family meals in Beijing. If they repeat their Madrid performances, the public may try to picture what life was like inside the garage. I'll imagine the dinner table. =================================================================== Good Judgement comes from experience, which comes from Poor Judgement. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 17:29:27 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] discarded boards Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net After a demo or a test, I collect all the broken boards and stack them neetly in back of the do-jang. In February every year I host a Regional Winter Camp. The camp is held in the mountians of Arkansas, and during February it is quite cold. We use the boards to start our camp fire. We say we are "Bringing the energy from our years training to start the camp in February" Its kind of symbolic but it helps to set a tone for the camp. "ENERGY" I don't like to burn it in my fireplace becasue the pine tends to pop to much, but for a camp fire it is great. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 22:43:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sigh, smart sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why is it that no one wants to realize that basic drills for strength and leg power, yes leg strength are the key to sparring.... this is rediculous... you all argue back and forth about "the technique" but do you train, doing the basic strength, speed drills over and over? Hundreds of times a week. And do you know what these drills are and, DO you push yoreselves constantly beyond what you can do each and every time? Realisticly, do your techniques, have the velosity, impact... to be realistic?geeze! To do what they are ment to do.... is this all show? And belt rank mind play? And does anyone take time to study physics, and the movement of the human body. Martial artists have known of, for thousands of years. Ok some venting here, but really, does anyone really train? Age is not a factor in this question. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 19:47:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] A troll? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From http://www.bullshido.net/. A troll??? -------------------------------------------------------- LATEST REVIEWS -------------------------------------------------------- Title: My Experience with the ATA I had been contemplating enrolling in a martial arts school this past summer. I was checking out various websites for local schools and had sent emails to a few schools enquiring about class availability and pricing. A little background on me, I am in my thirties, very overweight and in need of some good ole fashion exercise and fitness, I thought martial arts would keep my interest more than a typical gym membership. I had taken Shotokan Karate when I was about fourteen for a few months but lost interest quickly as I was getting a viscous addiction to Nintendo at the time (that's why I need the exercise so bad now!) I received a call form the local ATA School first, less than an hour after submitting a web based request for more information. The instructor seemed very eager to have me come in for a free lesson and talk about what the school had to offer. I agreed to meet with them a day later and was set to visit the school and find out all about the ATA Taekwondo system. That night I arrived at the school and was promptly greeted by a junior instructor and was handed a clipboard to fill out some basic information, the instructor I had an appointment with was still teaching a class at the moment so I had a seat and watched the class. After the class the instructor was teaching completed she greeted me warmly and took me to an office to talk about what the school had to offer. I was told about how wonderful the school was and how they were the best martial arts school in the area and how I would learn so much about self defense and get in the best shape possible. Me being na=EFve as a catholic school girl got very excited. We went to the training area and was shown a few stances, punches and a few kicks. After the free lesson I was taken back to the office area and sat down with the instructor to talk about cost and commitment. The basic plan they offered was $135 a month for two lessons a week, each lesson is forty-five minutes long. The contract was a standard twelve month contract with an early contract termination fee. Me of course being a complete naeve idiot who was too stupid to shop around and check out different schools received a free uniform and signed the contract. I left the school that night so excited and ready to learn martial arts once again. Two days later I was to attend my first class. I arrived early as I always do for things and waited patiently for the class to start. When the class before me finished I waited for the instructor who enrolled me to introduce me to my new instructor but she did not. I kind of stood there like an idiot and finally took it upon myself to find my attendance card and lined up in formation with the rest of the class. When the instructor took the floor the first thing she did was wind up an old fashioned alarm clock to make sure the class was only forty-five minutes, even though there are several clocks on the wall. We then recited the "oath of Songham spirit" then proceeded to warm up. The warm-up in this school lasts almost twenty minutes, which leaves a whooping twenty-five minutes for curriculum! One of the first things we were told was that testing was six weeks away and we needed to learn the material ASAP as they wanted my basic class to test for orange belt at the next testing, which was six weeks away. During the next few classes I started to notice a few things. First my class had a few adults (older than 18) and a few kids, two whom were both 13 years old. We had a few classes that after the warm-up consisted of the class lining up and we would each take a turn running up and kicking a wave-master then giving a high-five to the instructor as we were told "good job." I should also add that we were constantly reminded to "CLAP FOR YOUR BUDDY!" I honestly believed that my school used the exact same curriculum that they used for the kids for the adults. There were a few nights that I thought I was back in an elementary school physical education class. After a few classes I enquired to the instructor as to when we would start learning forms, 1 steps and the self defense techniques for the white belt rank. I was told that with the basic plan ($135 a month for 2 classes a week) we would not be learning these as this was restricted to the Black Belt Club. I'll have to admit that my heart sank a bit when I learned this and I started to realize that I might be attending a McDojang, and I was involved in some sort tier pricing bullshit. Two days after enquiring about the lack of the traditional curriculum being taught I received a phone call from one of the junior instructors to meet with a co-owner of the school regarding enrolling in the Black belt Club. I attended the meeting and was told that I had what they were looking for in members of the BBC. They told me that I had the motivation and skill and should upgrade so that I could excel and become a great ATA black belt. Here again I'm an idiot. Perhaps I have low self esteem or just like to hear people say nice things about be, anyways I agreed to a 24 month contract at $150 a month for 3 classes a week. 2 of these classes were the standard curriculum; the third class was the elite BBC club stuff like learning how to handle foam Nunchaku and a foam/plastic single Escrima stick. I also had to pay $375 entry fee to the BBC which included my foam weapons and some really cheesy sparring gear, and a really cool BBC patch! Yes, I can imagine that most of you are thinking "This guys an idiot" and you know what I probably am, but my story goes on a little further, please bear with me. About a week before the testing (still in the basic program) we were taken through simulations of the testing. I should now tell you what was required of me for the ultimate Orange belt test. We had to perform an outer forearm block, double outer-forearm block, twin low block and the deadly back fist strike! We also had to perform the round kick. That's it! That is what the orange belt test consisted of. We were hounded to ensure that we had our ATA membership dues up to date and testing fees paid a week before the test that Cost me $70 this included a one year ATA membership and the testing fees for orange belt. There was a very nice older lady in my class that had suffered a bad car accident a year earlier and had had serious head trauma that caused her to loose her balance. She had taken TKD many years before and decided to try it to help in her rehabilitation. She took things slow and had a hard time but was having some fun. I witnessed the instructors attempt to guilt her into testing by telling her she would be left behind and she really need to test. This left me feeling ill, but being a giant idiot I continued on. Well test day had arrived. I had a hard time sleeping the night before with lots of butterflies in my stomach. I arrived with my wife early and got ready to test! My class tested first and the test lasted about 3 minutes. After that I watched the rest of the tests. I witnessed some of the sloppiest NO CONTACT sparring by black belts. I watched a 10 year old black belt throw a round kick in sparring and fell over! The forms were atrocious and unbelievably sloppy. I also saw at least two adult brown belts that were unable to break a friggin plastic re-breakable board! After the so called testing was over I was greeted by my wife and we went to lunch. Maybe it was me realizing what a joke my school was; maybe it was my wife telling me "wow, your class didn't have to do much to receive your orange belt." that was then I started to wakeup to reality. I attended a few more classes including a few of the elite Black belt Club classes before my final awakening to the fact that I attended a Mcdojang. During one of these classes which was being taught my a smug first degree black belt, we were scolded because we had not properly bowed to the many legions of pre-puberty black belts that exited the studio before our class started. I could hardly believe what I was hearing. They barely took the time to properly teach the techniques, but had the gall to chastise my class for not ensuring that we bowed to all the child black belts. I also started to understand some of the nasty things about how they teach, such as block teaching. A lot of ATA schools also use "block teaching" where they group white, yellow and orange students together, the next block is Camouflage and green mixed and so on. So depending on when you join you may start learning the yellow belt form as a fresh white belt. This was explained to me as being a superior teaching method because the instructor only focuses on teaching one form. The problem I see with this is a white belt does not have the foundations for a yellow belt form, this just makes them learn something they are not ready for because they use block teaching to cram more students into classes. About two weeks after the testing I attended my last class. The class started off fine and I knew tonight was the night that we would find out the results of the testing. I was anxious during class but at the same time excited. When there was about five minutes left in class the instructor picked up a stack of paper and said that it was time for certificates. My name was called and I responded with a loud Mam, and made my way to the front of the class. I bowed and shook the instructors hand and was handed a paper certificate. I then returned to my lineup position on the mats. I watched everyone else receive their certificates and was expecting to be receiving a belt, but that did not happen. We recited the pledge of Songham spirit and the class was over. I waited near the counter area for a few minutes to speak with the instructor, when she came over I said "I received this certificate but what does this mean? Did I become an orange belt?" In which she replied "You are an orange belt! You just need to pay an additional $6 fee at the counter to purchase your new belt and you're all set" It was about that time that I felt about two inches tall. I had finally come to the realization that I was in fact attending a Mcdojang. I had paid $70 to join the ATA and test for orange belt (I found out later it was actually orange recommended, they fleece their students by paying twice to test for each belt. Recommended then decided.) I paid them $70 then had to pay another $6 to have some kid behind the counter unceremoniously toss me my belt. I was crushed to say the least. Perhaps some of you will say that you never went through any formal tying of a belt on or whatnot, but my previous experience had led me to believe that most schools did some kind of ritual. In the ATA their belts and their system don't mean much else besides the quest for money, so I guess that's why they just accept the cash for the belts and hand them to you over the counter. In my two short months involved in the ATA I saw so many things that I find disturbing, I believe I could write a book exposing them for what they really are if I had of stayed in longer. That night after I paid for my belt I went home saddened and dismayed. My wife immediately knew something wasn't right, she said I looked like I had just lost my best friend or my dog had just died. I was genuinely hurt by the situation. That same night my wife suggested that I pay the early termination fee and never return to the school, I took her advice. I basically wanted to write this article to give folks an idea of what the ATA is all about. I have spoken with other people who have encountered the same issues that I have. In browsing numerous martial arts forums I see that there are many ATA protectionists out there so called "defenders of their faith" that always say "that doesn't happen in my school, we have high standards." All ATA schools may not be as bad as the one I dealt with, but the bad ones do seem to make up the majority of ATA affiliated schools. I have left the school for good now. All told, it cost me two months of wasted time and a grand total of just over $1500 in wasted money. I really wish I had found this site earlier and done more research on the Internet before jumping into a contract, but that can only be blamed on my own idiot self. If you have kids or are an adult looking for a school, please shop around and try out a lot of different schools and styles. Sometimes those small Karate or Taekwondo schools are far superior to the flashy ATA school, even if there smaller and the equipment isn't as nice. The ATA is money oriented period, which is fine, but what worries me are these kids who think they can defend themselves on the street are going to get hurt or killed. I really don't think most ATA instructors even care about this aspect though. Anyways that's my two month journey in the ATA. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest