Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #482 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. HKD blackbelt (Ray) 2. RE: HKD blackbelt (Thomas Gordon) 3. RE: ATA (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 4. re:Troll? (TKD Sa Dan) 5. RE: RE: ATA (Thomas Gordon) 6. RE: re:Troll? (Thomas Gordon) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:58:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD blackbelt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net He can throttle in cockpit or out FM: Pilot gets a black belt in Hapkido after the shock of 9-11 12:00 AM CST on Sunday, December 11, 2005 By LYNDA STRINGER / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News David Hill goes to work every day knowing that he could come face to face with terrorists. But the Flower Mound resident is more able to defend himself today than on Sept. 11, 2001. An American Airlines pilot for 20 years, Mr. Hill has achieved the 1st Dan black belt in the Korean martial art Hapkido, certified by Grandmaster Bong Soo Han of Santa Monica, Calif. Hapkido is taught to Korean special forces. Rather than carrying a handgun in the cockpit, like some of his peers, Mr. Hill, 47, chose to train in Hapkido. "I've always had an interest in martial arts, but as a pilot, the 9-11 tragedy gave me that impetus to pursue it," Mr. Hill said. On the morning of the terrorist attacks, he was piloting a flight from Boston to Chicago that left just minutes before the hijacked American Airlines Flight 11 took off from Boston's Logan International Airport on its way to New York City. Flight 11 was the first plane to strike the World Trade Center towers. "That got my attention of how close in proximity I was to those terrorists," he said. Mr. Hill received his black belt in Hapkido on Oct. 29 through Cross Training Martial Arts in Flower Mound. It is one of only 14 black belts awarded by Mr. Han through affiliated schools in his 37 years of teaching in America and one of 122 black belts he has awarded overall. "Grandmaster Han is very particular. He has very high standards," said Forrest Rindels, Mr. Hill's instructor. "When you earn a black belt from him, you know you've got something you can use when you need to use it." To earn his black belt, Mr. Hill had to demonstrate the techniques of Hapkido, write a 14-page essay and pass written and oral testing. He did all this with a taped broken hand. His wife, Peg Hill, said he has always been strong and physically fit but shy and nonconfrontational. "I've really seen David come out of his shell," she said. "This has made him more confident, a stronger man in his ability to take care of three daughters and a wife." His training was tested on a flight seven months ago. "I was deadheading [flying as a passenger] in uniform on a Dallas-to-Miami flight, and a flight attendant came up to me to tell me there was a man that had been in the lavatory for 45 minutes," Mr. Hill said. "When someone is in there for that long, they could possibly be a terrorist putting together a weapon or a bomb." Although the situation was a false alarm - the man was sick - Mr. Hill learned something valuable about himself. "Before I took martial arts, I would have gotten really nervous and thought about all the things that could happen," he said. "I just got up relaxed and knocked on the door. "Nothing came of it, but it showed me what I need to do in a situation like that. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] HKD blackbelt Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:29:27 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry, Odd timing on this email. The weekend a friend of mine said he was considering switching over from piloting for commercial airline to flying for a private jet leasing company. We discussed sense of security he would have being able to defend himself AND his additional marketability if he was a martial artist. Thomas Gordon Florida -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:59 AM To: The_Dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] HKD blackbelt He can throttle in cockpit or out FM: Pilot gets a black belt in Hapkido after the shock of 9-11 12:00 AM CST on Sunday, December 11, 2005 By LYNDA STRINGER / Special Contributor to The Dallas Morning News David Hill goes to work every day knowing that he could come face to face with terrorists. But the Flower Mound resident is more able to defend himself today than on Sept. 11, 2001. An American Airlines pilot for 20 years, Mr. Hill has achieved the 1st Dan black belt in the Korean martial art Hapkido, certified by Grandmaster Bong Soo Han of Santa Monica, Calif. Hapkido is taught to Korean special forces. Rather than carrying a handgun in the cockpit, like some of his peers, Mr. Hill, 47, chose to train in Hapkido. "I've always had an interest in martial arts, but as a pilot, the 9-11 tragedy gave me that impetus to pursue it," Mr. Hill said. On the morning of the terrorist attacks, he was piloting a flight from Boston to Chicago that left just minutes before the hijacked American Airlines Flight 11 took off from Boston's Logan International Airport on its way to New York City. Flight 11 was the first plane to strike the World Trade Center towers. "That got my attention of how close in proximity I was to those terrorists," he said. Mr. Hill received his black belt in Hapkido on Oct. 29 through Cross Training Martial Arts in Flower Mound. It is one of only 14 black belts awarded by Mr. Han through affiliated schools in his 37 years of teaching in America and one of 122 black belts he has awarded overall. "Grandmaster Han is very particular. He has very high standards," said Forrest Rindels, Mr. Hill's instructor. "When you earn a black belt from him, you know you've got something you can use when you need to use it." To earn his black belt, Mr. Hill had to demonstrate the techniques of Hapkido, write a 14-page essay and pass written and oral testing. He did all this with a taped broken hand. His wife, Peg Hill, said he has always been strong and physically fit but shy and nonconfrontational. "I've really seen David come out of his shell," she said. "This has made him more confident, a stronger man in his ability to take care of three daughters and a wife." His training was tested on a flight seven months ago. "I was deadheading [flying as a passenger] in uniform on a Dallas-to-Miami flight, and a flight attendant came up to me to tell me there was a man that had been in the lavatory for 45 minutes," Mr. Hill said. "When someone is in there for that long, they could possibly be a terrorist putting together a weapon or a bomb." Although the situation was a false alarm - the man was sick - Mr. Hill learned something valuable about himself. "Before I took martial arts, I would have gotten really nervous and thought about all the things that could happen," he said. "I just got up relaxed and knocked on the door. "Nothing came of it, but it showed me what I need to do in a situation like that. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 11:24:45 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: ATA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Clint stated: "He say's the ATA caters to people who wan't to pay the money, and say they are in TAE KWON-DO, but do not wan't to sweat, and work at it to much. And the majority of people seem to wan't that these day's." Although they are not ATA, an organization here on the East Coast opened a dojang in my area back in February and from what I can tell from their students who have left them and come to me, it is the same thing. Their techniques are sloppy because you can tell that they have not been properly drilled in the basics. They are definitely in for the money instead of actually teaching proper technique. People often ask me "Did that other Karate school that opened up in town hurt your enrollment any?" I take pride in honestly answering "No. There are two kinds of schools. One that will teach you just what you need to get from belt to belt as quickly as possible while charging an unGodly amount of money and even make you sign a contract. And the other will take time to actually teach you something useful and care for your progress, all for a nominal amount. I fall in the category of the latter. Because of this my retention level among my students has remained high." They get the point then. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "TKD Sa Dan" To: Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:30:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] re:Troll? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I believe this was a repost from another forum, but it got me thinking: The person admitted toward the end that there are numerous cases of "that doesn't happen in my school", etc..posts out there. So, doesn't this really say something? If an organization can grow, continue to attract and retain membership, then they must, as a whole, be offering a service at a preceived value consistent with the cost. Otherwise, people go elsewhere, and those businesses close. We've all heard that "no news is good news" - implying people like to complain. Of the 300,000 members of the ATA (# from their website), does the number of "complaints" that we 'hear' constitute a high percentage? It doesn't appear to me to be the case. What does appear to me is that in an arena where discipline and respect are so high on our lists, many lack the self control to avoid the bashing. Are there legitimate complaints against the ATA? Sure, as there no doubt is with all organizations. The tone of this repost, to me, was not one of bashing. However, it gets increasingly harder to constantly see open season on the ATA, when in my experience with the ATA, they've consistently focused on what they are doing, and seemed to turn a deaf ear to the noise that others seem to like to make in their direction. The ATA closing Oath reminds me that we are to live having honor with others. By definition, an oath is a promise. I, for one, don't like to break promises.. In the Spirit, Mark, 20 year member, ATA. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: ATA Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:44:05 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Heck, on one list I see people selling out and the this list we have folks giving it away. Mr. Morgan apparently cares a lot about his students and I certainly respect and appreciate that. "There are two kinds of schools. One that will teach you just what you need to get from belt to belt as quickly as possible while charging an ungodly amount of money and even make you sign a contract. And the other will take time to actually teach you something useful and care for your progress, all for a nominal amount." To some degree I have to disagree with this. Yes, there are those schools out there selling as many upgrades/contracts as they can for as much as they can. And many of them do so with very young and naïve "instructors." I've heard these guys openly talk of putting their most experienced instructors in the back to return calls and close sales while the rookies are on the floor dealing with teaching a "deadly" art and worrying about passing their driving school when they turn 16...... Then we have those real-deal kinda instructors who teach because they love it and refuse to charge much if anything at all. Typically, these instructors have other sources of income. But there's also a breed of instructors who teach because they love it BUT they want to provide for their family too and make an honest living teaching real martial arts. The national average is $125. I think most on this list likely teach "above average" curriculum. Why is it so wrong to charge a fair price for a superior service? (And no, we don't charge $125 a month) Thomas Gordon Florida . -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] re:Troll? Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:56:40 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Mark, "Of the 300,000 members of the ATA (# from their website), does the number of 'complaints' that we 'hear' constitute a high percentage?" A more accurate number is 150,000-180,000 members. When I opened our school/club, there were roughly 1500 active schools/clubs. Today, eight years later, there still is. 300,000 members at 1500 schools would mean the average school would have 200 members. I don't know of any schools in my area (and there's a bunch) with 200 students at any one location. ATA always inflates their numbers. I've been at tournaments with 150-200 competitors. When it was completed, they said 500 competitors? What?! How?! They count each "competitor" based on entry. In other words, you count as three if you compete in forms, sparring, and weapons. Now ATA has added XMA forms and XMA weapons. So it's very possible that one person may be counted five times. In other words, a competition with 2000 competitors may only actually be 400 people competing in five divisions. Just like the recent articles saying ATA was trying to change 1,000,000 lives and said it was an active count. When I asked, I was told it was a running head count from 1969. Totally different scenario from 1 million active to 1 million in 36 years. Thomas Gordon Florida . -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest