Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 03:01:21 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #491 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: MTA? (J R Hilland) 2. SongAhm style (C.Sears) 3. Re: SongAhm style (Ray) 4. Re: RE: MTA? (Jye nigma) 5. RE: MKA/ATA, Benko, etc. (C. Bonner) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:40:43 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: MTA? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Eternal grand master? I hope that does not imply the cult type impression it gives. Now we also have great grand master, supreme grand master, and great supreme grand master. Any guess as to what is next? Exalted eternal super great supreme grand master? I have heard more definitions, reasons and prerequisites than letters in the alphabet and have not bought a one. The term just hasn't been around that long in the history of the MA (although it has been used in chess for a while) and has NO clear definition. If the whole GM title thing went away, we would all be the better for it. Many traditional martial arts do just fine without the term; maybe we could learn from others instead of trying to change the world. When I see the term GM, the first thing I think of is the first time I saw it used - it was used by an extremely out of shape and very young wantabe in some old issue of BB times or some other rag promoting himself to 14th dan or something like that. I don’t think the standards for the equivalent of master have changed, i.e.: 7th dan in taekwondo (ITF), 5th dan in hapkido and wherever your organization or art makes the mark. I know this comes up yearly on the DD and I apologize for the soapbox, but the use of this term and its variable expansions are getting beyond silly. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:54:46 -0600 From: "C.Sears" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] SongAhm style Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hwang Kee did not develop SongAhm. That was Haeng Ung Lee, founder and first Grandmaster of the ATA. At the time, the ATA was teaching the Chang-Hon forms. EGM Lee decided that he wanted to teach a style of Taekwondo that emphasized the traditional Korean kicking styles, so he designed the SongAhm forms. They were first introduced in 1983. >From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" > >If it is true and GM Benko still teaches the traditional Chang-Hon patterns >of Gen. Choi, then you mean that Hwang Kee also taught the Chang-Hon >patterns as well, and then later invented his own "Song Ahm" hyungs?? --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] SongAhm style To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 16:46:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Chang-Hon forms. EGM Lee decided that he wanted to teach a style of > Taekwondo that emphasized the traditional Korean kicking styles, so he > designed the SongAhm forms. They were first introduced in 1983. Any info on how the % of kicks in the Songahm forms compare with the other TKD or TSD forms/hyung/poomsae? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 17:25:03 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: MTA? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net not trying to be funny, but when i saw a few clips of the aTA cermonies for promotion i guess it looked a bit cultish to me, but that's on the outside lookin in. jye aka grand supreme super D duper elite grandmaster flash J R Hilland wrote: Eternal grand master? I hope that does not imply the cult type impression it gives. Now we also have great grand master, supreme grand master, and great supreme grand master. Any guess as to what is next? Exalted eternal super great supreme grand master? I have heard more definitions, reasons and prerequisites than letters in the alphabet and have not bought a one. The term just hasn't been around that long in the history of the MA (although it has been used in chess for a while) and has NO clear definition. If the whole GM title thing went away, we would all be the better for it. Many traditional martial arts do just fine without the term; maybe we could learn from others instead of trying to change the world. When I see the term GM, the first thing I think of is the first time I saw it used - it was used by an extremely out of shape and very young wantabe in some old issue of BB times or some other rag promoting himself to 14th dan or something like that. I don’t think the standards for the equivalent of master have changed, i.e.: 7th dan in taekwondo (ITF), 5th dan in hapkido and wherever your organization or art makes the mark. I know this comes up yearly on the DD and I apologize for the soapbox, but the use of this term and its variable expansions are getting beyond silly. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "C. Bonner" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 20:24:53 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: MKA/ATA, Benko, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am pretty sure that H.U. Lee's organization was originally the M.K.A, or F. Benko started the M.T.A. in the early seventy's, and changed the name to the I.T.A. in the late 80's. Also, Benko was married to a Vietnamese woman, that he met in Vietnam. She died a couple of years ago. Clint -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 3 >Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 08:28:13 -0500 >From: "Rick Clark" >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] ATA/MTA >To: >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >If I remember correctly Benko was affiliate with Choi.  Someone told me >Benko had married a relative of Choi, but I have no idea if there is any >truth to that.  Does anyone know about that? > >Rick Clark   "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde > > >www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest