Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 03:02:41 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 12 #505 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2000 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Money grubbers (Beungood8@aol.com) 2. ATA, Black Belts and Over charging (Frank Clay) 3. Re: Recommended or Decided (tangsoo@casemartialarts.com) 4. Re: Re: Money grubbers (Dante) 5. hapkido differences (J R Hilland) 6. Re: Black Belt Sword Article (aburrese@aol.com) 7. RE: Re: Money grubbers (Thomas Gordon) 8. Re: Re: Money grubbers (Dante James) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 01:06:41 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 12/28/2005 6:10:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: 2nd "Decided" in the ATA is the permanently awarded rank of 2nd Dan. Before that there is a 2nd Recommended, then one must wait at least 2 more months to test for Decided. Don't ask me why, I never understood it except for money. There is also a 1st Rec and 1st Decided Sounds like moneygrubbing off the backs of dedicated students. What a disgrace. Jack --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:50:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] ATA, Black Belts and Over charging Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I fully agree with Master M. You are or you are not. That’s right up there with revoking rank. I don't see how you take something away that someone has earned and as for over charging? That’s epidemic. I have heard horror stories of people paying a pretty penny for first dan. To pay twice for the same rank is just another method of fleecing students. Frank --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:09:29 -0600 (CST) From: tangsoo@casemartialarts.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Recommended or Decided Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Master Maldonado. It is unfair to us as dedicated martial artist and to our students to test them or simply pass them when they are not prepared. The challenge is to give tthem specific requirements for testing and to monitor their progress. -Master K Case > Message: 4 > From: "Manuel Maldonado" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:39:17 -0800 > Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Recommended or Decided > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >  My view is or you are or you arent period. I myself have never been one > to "overcharge" or even cosider testing anyone whom is not ready. If you > come before me for a black belt test it's because you are ready willing > and able to pass the test. Master Maldonado > > -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:51:49 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: Dante To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No disagreement at all. Which is why the Rec and Decided aspect disappeared as soon as I left the ATA and while in, I for Rec. I usually charged only enough to pay for the cost of certificates. I don't know where it came from. The ATA was a part of the ITF way back when, and I don't know how the ITF did or does Dan rank. ITF'ers? I would be curious to know, of the folks who have left the ATA, who kept Rec. and Decided ranks and why.. "Tradition" is of little value if done only by rote memory with no understanding or recognition of meaning. Peace Dante -----Original Message----- >From: Beungood8@aol.com >Sent: Dec 28, 2005 11:06 PM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers > >In a message dated 12/28/2005 6:10:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > >2nd "Decided" in the ATA is the permanently awarded rank of 2nd Dan. Before > >that there is a 2nd Recommended, then one must wait at least 2 more months >to test for Decided. Don't ask me why, I never understood it except for >money. There is also a 1st Rec and 1st Decided > > >Sounds like moneygrubbing off the backs of dedicated students. What a >disgrace. > >Jack >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang Dante J. James, Esq. Project Director AA-VIP 303-830-1105 www.aavip.org Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional VOTE - Your future depends on it! --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:26:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] hapkido differences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hwarang and kuksool are styles of hapkido. They have evolved into separate entities in some parts of the planet; some believe this was solely done for marketing purposes. There may or may not be separate distinctions in the theories of basic motion, but the techniques themselves are from the same source and are often identical. In traditional hapkido it is customary to practice technique from a deep stance in order to facilitate proper motion from the center. The many other reasons are vast enough fill a small book. Many hapkidoin will move towards a more relaxed stance once the unification of the technique in movement is matured. In other words, once you have been training in hapkido for several decades a specific technique can be performed in just about any manner. The parts of the technique are interchangeable. The technique stands alone and therefore can be practiced with any beginning or conclusion (that includes standing or on the ground). In order to properly develop graceful fluid motion it will take many decades of dedicated practice. If we train solely with a high stance, the technique can be difficult to grasp, as the core of the technique is lost when excessive motion is required and this will invalidate specific theories of basic motion. Concerning proximity, everyone has a unique 'body style' and will respond differently to an attack; in addition, a 'balance break' is fundamental to any form of hapkido. Different schools of thought will emphasize different functions of this theory and the effect is the propinquity. Jere R. Hilland Red River Hapkido www.hapkidoselfdefense.com < To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:21:26 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master James, We do have a probationary first degree which is a minimum of four months. Unlike the ATA, we teach a new form and give them special black belt classes to help prepare for their upcoming examination. When testing for probationary black, we charge $40 to test which covers belt, certificate, boards, and testing fee. We don't use the recommended ranking for black belts at our school and there isn't any sort of "almost ? Degree". When in ATA, I never charged more than $35 for recommended black belt or color belt ranks. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Dante James" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:58:32 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Gordon, Thanx, didn't mean to put you on the spot. I would be curious how "probationary" is different than "recommended"? Why is it not an "almost" Black Belt? Are they not wearing a Black Belt that they can't keep if they don't continue, or don't pass the next exam. Again, not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to understand the difference. Peace and Happy New Year Dante (as opposed to Master is just fine.) Dante J. James, Esq. www.denverata.com www.kimartialarts.com Change is Inevitable, Growth is Optional ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 8:21 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Money grubbers > Master James, > > We do have a probationary first degree which is a minimum of four > months. Unlike the ATA, we teach a new form and give them special black > belt classes to help prepare for their upcoming examination. When > testing for probationary black, we charge $40 to test which covers belt, > certificate, boards, and testing fee. We don't use the recommended > ranking for black belts at our school and there isn't any sort of > "almost ? Degree". > > When in ATA, I never charged more than $35 for recommended black belt or > color belt ranks. > > Thomas Gordon > Florida > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2000 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2005: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest