Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 19:49:29 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #9 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Happy New Year/Ji Han Jae, Doju (Chosondo@aol.com) 2. RE: Re: Proof of dan rank (Master Mark Seidel) 3. Boat Rank (firstpe315@aol.com) 4. GM Ji (Beungood8@aol.com) 5. has anyone seen this (Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com) 6. Question about 3 years of age (Richard Tomlinson) 7. Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. Master Seidel (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 9. Master Bonefont (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 10. Re: has anyone seen this (Ray) 11. RE Master Godwin (hapkido) 12. Training with DJN Ji (hapkido) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 09:09:36 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy New Year/Ji Han Jae, Doju Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Happy new to all of you DD folks. I have been in lurk mode for essentially the past year due to some health challenges. However, I have been observing to goings on here on DD. I am on the upswing now and you folks will be hearing more from me. On the subject of Ji, Doju, I am fortunate to enjoy a fairly close relationship with him and I have come to know him in a manner that most don't. This close relationship is most due to the fact that he lives close to me. Ji, Doju is very simple man with a good heart but the circumstances of his life often places him in situations where people who are not well-intended try and sometimes succeed in taking advantage of his good nature. I spend an inordinate amount of time running interferance for him. My sense is that he won't be actively teaching much longer. Those of you who have not had the opportunity to spend some time on the mat with him is missing out on a once in a life time experience. He truly allows whoever trains with him to get a glimse into true nature of his art. That said, Ji, Doju conducts classes at my school every couple of months on the average. My doors are open to anyone who are interested. Please feel free to visit my website at www.chosondo.com for his teaching schedule. The next classes is secheduled for January 28. Be well... Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Chosondo Federation Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 Website: www.chosondo.com E-Mail: chosondo@aol.com 215-483-5057 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Master Mark Seidel" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Proof of dan rank Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 10:17:16 -0500 Organization: The Midtown Academy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ... saw on his wall, a Gold Leaf Kukkiwon with the 9th Dan written upon it. > I e-mailed the Kukkiwon and they authenticated his rank... Why any of the DD readers should be surprised that you could buy certs from Kukkiwon, lets not forget that that their former leader was indicted, convicted and jailed for embezzlement and bribes. The Kuk's purpose is to enrich a lot of the pockets of the practitioners that used them and their selves. I hope that is not the case anymore but they won't see any of my money or my students when there are plenty of legitimate organization based in the US. I judge the instructor by the quality of the students they produce not their rank. There are a lot of great Martial Artist's that just can't teach and there are a lot of teachers who are not great MA. Mark --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:33:09 -0500 From: firstpe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Boat Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From what I have heard in the past from a few instructors...boat rank was not uncommon and "technically" not inappropriate in some situations. The way I heard it, "back in the day" rank was more loose, didn't happen as often and certainly not important for any specific reason. Somebody could be a 2nd or 3rd dan for "a long time". They would come to the states to teach or open a school and they would be promoted to 5th Dan or something of the like. Something that would have fallen in line with a "time in grade" type of thought process. Perhaps Rudy or JR could talk about this theory about promotion long ago as they are slightly more seasoned in these matters than the rest of us. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 14:12:11 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Ji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is my experience also. If your true intentions are true and you are seeking nothing more than knowledge Gm Ji will welcome you in and train you and work you VERY hard. I think he can sense who is there to just grab a photo op or malign him via the keyboard and will bypass that individual for the good martial Artists. Jack In a message dated 1/5/2006 6:06:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: there are two distinct types of people I run into when I train in Hapkido....1. those who train for the love of training and learning and all the accolades and rank are secondary... 2. those who don't train that much at all but have all the photo's, certificates, and paperwork of everything they have ever been to in their life as documentation of "being somebody"...unfortunately Ji Han Jae is approached by many of the people in category 2....but that doesn't take away from anything that he has taught me....some of us who train with him for the love of his knowledge just shake our heads and laugh at people who write the articles and claim this or that..... --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:05:32 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] has anyone seen this Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Seoul Shinmoon (a Seoul newspaper) statement by Duk Sung Son, 16 June 1959 With morality and humbleness, the Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan is determined to punish those traitors who threw away their trust to the other numerous Kwans. Especially after Lee Won Kuk left Korea, the traitors deceptively contacted these other Kwans, used the dojang under their own names to slanderously spread their own names. We can no longer watch these violations and wish to make clear to the nation so the Chung Do Kwan is not misunderstood. Therefore, we lay bare their criminal acts. A Brief History of the Chung Do Kwan Lee Won Kuk returned from Japan to open his dojang in Yong Chun, Suh Dae Moon Ku in 1944 and produced disciplines (Sado). Following the liberation of Korea, Lee moved his dojang to the Si Chun Church Hall, Kyun Ji Dong and continued to teach. When the Korean War broke out, the members were separated and became refugees, but I gathered some members and continued to teach. When the Allied Forces retreated on January 1, 1951, Lee Won Kuk said he was old and no longer able to teach, so he wanted me to be the next Kwan Jang. I became his successor. After I returned to the capital city of Seoul, I found Hyun Jong Myun leading the school, but he insisted that I take over the school, perhaps because he thought he couldn't handle or take the responsibility. My juniors also insisted that I take over. Finally, when Jung Yong Taek, who ran away to Japan, brought a message that nominated me to the Kwan Jang position by Lee Won Kuk, I agreed to be the next Kwan Jang. Because I did not charge the black belts and policemen the 300 hwan fee, I started to have financial problems. At the time, I could not even pay the Sabums. Despite the net loss from operating the Chung Do Kwan, I continued to organize ceremonies and tournaments, and spread the Chung Do Kwan and Taekwondo in published news articles. After several months, I came back to Seoul and found out Lee Won Kuk and his family all ran away to Japan. I thought they were living in Pusan. Jung Yong Taek also ran away to Japan, but came back several times during the year. However he did not know what Lee Won Kuk and his family's situation or business was. Lee Won Kuk's sister in law, Moon Myung Ja, also frequently flew back and forth between Korean and Japan. I don't know why she visited Korea so often. Jung Yong Taek and Moon Myung Ja were jealous of the Chung Do Kwan's growth and devised a plan to split the Chung Do Kwan. At last, they formed an illicit connection with discontented members of the Chung Do Kwan and returned to Korea. They obtained not a nomination certificate (Im Myung Jung), but a notice statement (Ji Ryung Jung) signed by Lee Won Kuk. On June 4, 1959, the notice statement was given to Uhm Woon Kyu. The Korean traitors who ran away to Japan were a matter of regret for me. They don't know that they will be punished at last. Nam Tae Hi asked me to give a dan certificate to 29th Infantry Division commander Choi Hong Hi, who had some experience in martial art (Sado), so we could use his military authority to spread the Chung Do Kwan. To contribute to Taekwondo's development, I gave an Honorary 4th Dan certificate signed by myself, Son Duk Sung, to Choi Hong Hi in front of the 3rd Army commander in 1955. In 1957, Choi insisted that I give him a 6th Dan and sent a certificate he prepared in my name for me to sign. Because Choi and I were sworn brothers, and because my younger brother had a 6th Dan, he wanted one also. I tore up the certificate he sent to me without signing it. General Choi was also sending instructors (Sabums) to Vietnam, but he did that on his own authority and chose the number of instructors to send without consulting me. He also lied and stated that he had 24 years experience in martial arts practice (Sa Do Soo Ryun) and spread propaganda about himself. Therefore, it was unavoidable that I had to cancel his Honorary 4th Dan certificate and Honorary Kwan Jang position. The nomination of Sabums After I received the position of 2nd Kwan Jang of the Chung Do Kwan, I nominated Min Wook Sik, Hyun Jong Myun, and Uhm Woon Kyu as Sabums. Later, I nominated Nam Tae Hi as a Sabum and Uhm Woon Kyu as a Standing or Permanent Sabum (Sang Im Sabum). However Hyun Jong Myun, Uhm Woon Kyu and Nam Tae Hi acted as if they were at war against me and frequently contacted with people who ran away to Japan. Who can nominate a Kwan Jang in a private dojang except the legal person with the authority? I myself am willing to give up my position as the Kwan Jang, if I see a promising and capable person who can be the next successor, but I am still looking for that person. There is no excuse for the actions of Uhm Woon Kyu, when he was sent by me to teach Taekwondo at the Korea Military Academy, Sung Kyun Kwan University and Seoul National University. He should have known better as an educated person. But I feel very sorry for those who received just a notice statement (Ji Ryung Jung) and not a nomination certificate (Im Myung Jung) from him. If he thought about all the other Taekwondo schools and the Chung Do Kwan's future, he would not do such a betrayal. I want the wise citizens of Korea to judge this matter. When I found out about these matters, I expelled them from the membership on behalf of my name. All the more, the Chung Do Kwan will unite ever more and practice rigorously for tournaments in the future, so please do not be disturbed by this whole action. Expelled members: Hyun Jong Myun - Uhm Woon Kyu - Nam Tae Hi Cancellation of Honorary 4th Dan certificate and Honorary Kwan Jang position: Choi Hong Hi June 15, 1959 Kwan Jang Son Duk Sung kurtis carter --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:20:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Question about 3 years of age Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Out of curosity, does anyone have a working program of martial arts for the 3 year age group. Or , I guess, is anyone doing a program for that age group? --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:08:19 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ko Dan Ja Shim Sa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray The testing begins several months prior to arriving at the test location. You are sent a letter telling you that you are time eligable and are being considered to test. You complete a questioniar that ask questions such as what have you done over the last five years local, regional, national, and internationally. How often do you train under your instructor. Also, your instructor must give his/her recomendation. The questioniar is reviewed, and if you are invited to test you will recieve another letter of invitation. This letter will give instructions about writting essays about history, culture, hyung, etc. I wrote seven 2000 word essays for my 5th dan test. These are sent to headquarters for review and become part of your testing. When you arrive at the test location, you are being tested from the time you arrive. You are being graded on you attitude, your ability to teach, organize, help others etc. The first night is dinner together with the other candidates followed by orientation. Then the physical training/testing begins. The physical training/testing continues until as late as 12 or 1 am at which time you can retire to your cabins and work on written assignments. These written assignments are ussually given out at orientation. The next morning training begins at 7am and with breaks to eat, take notes, and take care of personal needs like bathroom use, or taping feet, visiting the medical staff on hand, the phsyical training continues in 2 to 4 hour session for the entire day until approx. 12am or 1am Yes this continues every day for the entire time. You are lucky to get 2 or 3 hours of sleep per night, by the third day you are exhausted, but like my instructor says "dicipline is easy when you are fresh" Curt McCauley and I tested together for 5th Dan maybe he can add anything I left out. JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:10:38 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Seidel Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If hard training and tough test sounds like a cult to you maybe you should find another school JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:15:35 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Bonefont Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Master Bonefont I did not know you were here on the DoJang. Master McCauley from Washington is also here, do you know him. JC CoxGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] has anyone seen this To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:22:08 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Seoul Shinmoon (a Seoul newspaper) statement by Duk Sung Son, 16 June 1959 This is referenced in the Modern History of Taekwondo, available at: http://www.martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html "Meanwhile, after Son Duk Sung became the second Chung Do Kwan Kwan Jang, Uhm Woon Kyu, Hyun Jong Myun and Nam Tae Hi had a feud with Son over Lee Won Kuk's Kwan Jang nomination certificate. A Seoul newspaper (Seoul Shinmoon) published the following statement by Son Duk Sung on June 16, 1959: With morality and humbleness, the Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan is determined to punish those traitors who threw away their trust to the other numerous Kwans. Especially after Lee Won Kuk left Korea, the traitors deceptively contacted these other Kwans, used the dojang under their own names to slanderously spread their own names. We can no longer watch these violations and wish to make clear to the nation so the Chung Do Kwan is not misunderstood. Therefore, we lay bare their criminal acts." I note the frequent use of 'ran away to Japan' in the piece you quoted. Yes, I imagine most Koreans were still very pissed at the Japanese around that time. Many Koreans, Chinese and Filipinos still are... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "hapkido" To: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 19:40:33 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE Master Godwin Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jerry, what are you looking for? I have met Master Godwin a few times. He has been training with DJN Ji for quite awhile. I have never been to any of his schools, but he visited us in CO a number of years ago with Master McKenzie and we had a great time on the mat. Todd Longmont, CO --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "hapkido" To: Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 20:06:45 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Training with DJN Ji Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To piggy back on what Mike said and to give Sean a plug it isn't to late to train with DJN Ji. DJN is lots of fun to train with on the mat and Sean puts on a heck of a seminar in Seattle Those who missed the last one because of the BS rumors flying around the internet missed a great time. Also, when it comes to rank I really don't think DJN Ji cares about it too much. If your willing to train hard, he is willing to teach hard. With the chat of BS HKD going around, I have seen many different HKD people at DJN's seminars over the years and on Sunday night after two or three days of training it is usually the serious HKD people that are there to the end. And that isn't too many. On a side note, Mike, what did you think of the orange bowl? Todd Deininger Longmont, CO --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest