Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 03:01:37 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #28 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. old masters (Richard Tomlinson) 2. teaching (Richard Tomlinson) 3. Lower Back Problems (Richard Tomlinson) 4. ability to teach (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: old Masters (Ray) 6. Re: memories (Beungood8@aol.com) 7. Re: scoliosis (Erik Kluzek) 8. RE: Lower Back Problem (julie) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:01:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] old masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Old masters are a dying breed, one's from Korea with the original training.... a chance to train with any of them.... golden opportunity! An older master needs to not show technique physicaly, they can teach it , and have the student learn and exicute the tecnique perhaps even better than themselves...this has been my expierence. Never turn down a chance to be in the same room as these Masters and Grand Masters, one learns alot! Well, if one is open to the lesson. sandy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:27:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] teaching Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Me again! Well, can I do a tornado inverted round house tornado round house kick? Not fast, but slow enough to show it and give detailed explanation of that technique. Do I understand velosity and impact, the physics of Tae Kwon Do movement and able to teach such.... yes, BUT am I able to reach any student's mind process with something THEY will understand in order to exicute techniques and become the best they can be.... of course, this comes with age and expierence.... a young instructor may be able to do so many fancy things but will lack the ability to teach to a variety of different students. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:42:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Lower Back Problems Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What a great subject! I have found that by strengthening not only the abdominal area, the hip muscle groups and quads.... these support our bodies.... keeping the muscle groups which support not only the lower back, but remember, keeping our organs in place also.... it is all connected. Weakness in the muscle groups of the body will create problems... it goes for the body as a whole. One does not need to do a heavy weight lifting program or extreme aerobic kicking routine in order to strengthen one's body. It would be great to hear from the "older" Dojang folks as to what they have done to help with not only lower back pain, but their bodies in general to help their training. --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:25:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] ability to teach Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jye writes: > whoa whoa whoa...let's back things up here. my original question > was only a hypothetical one....it dealt with someone who could not > do something and how would they teach what they could not > do...OTHER PEOPLE took my question and flew with it, and that's > where the topic of people who once could do something and now can't > came about...then I showed the difference between that example and > mine. So please don't put my name in anything unless it's accurate. > furthermore, my question had little to do with fancy moves. if > people would have read and maybe re-read my question they would > have gotten more from it. > > jye > > > Rudy Timmerman wrote: > Even now, as Jye seems to suggest, they are no longer able > to do the > things they once were able to do; however, that they have something > to teach is beyond question. Hello Jye: I merely said: "Jye SEEMS to suggest"... Far cry from saying you actually said that my friend. I guess my point is that your hypothetical question was, by more than a few people, obviously taken as something you had not meant to say; however, I did not see you "correct" the number of posts of "others" who flew with it. By using the same tactic you used in the original post, we are now quite clear on the issue:) The DD is read by more than seasoned black belts who understand these things and, regardless if you meant it or not, your hypothetical question certainly had the potential to have unseasoned students question the teaching abilities of instructors who themselves are not able to perform certain tasks. You, and anyone else interested in such stats, can find scores of examples throughout the various athletic fields of endeavor where coaches cannot, and have never BEEN able to, do the things they demand of their charges. So it should not come as a surprise to you that your hypothetical question may have sounded a bit offensive to some. IMHO, it makes no difference if someone IS able to do it... the ONLY thing that matters is that they can TEACH it. To tell you the truth, it would be a total surprise to me to find an Instructor who can do EVERYTHING in his or her given curriculum; however, a good teacher will study HOW these things are done in order to teach it. Fancy or not... some techniques are, and never will be, suitable for a six foot six 250 pounder, but I took the effort and time to STUDY them in order to teach it to those who were smaller, lighter, and needed them. I see it as far more of a problem when black belts don't bother to learn how to do things they themselves cannot do or are unsuited for. Most of these lazy/vain people will simply throw out the stuff that makes them "look bad". It takes a certain amount of confidence to continue to teach those things that might make us look less able than some of our own students, and I have seen more than my share of martial artists who chose to look good by throwing out that what did not feed their ego. Sadly, that is how we lose our art:( Personally, by looking at my students, I feel quite comfortable about the job I did as a coach, and I would die a happy man if every one of my students surpassed me by a milestone. On the other hand, I have seen a number of black belts who might be regarded by some as very "able" martial artists who are total duds as teachers. Having BEEN able to do it certainly helps, but IMHO it is not a prerequisite for being a good coach. Some people study martial arts to do it themselves AND to learn how to pass these skills on, and others simply study it for themselves. I would feel quite sorry for anyone who studies with an Instructor who only studied the art for his or her own satisfaction regardless of how well s/he performs the arts. It takes more than wearing a black belt to be a good coach. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] old Masters To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 18:46:32 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "All of the other things I had I replaced, but the pictures, and some of the > only 8 mm footing of GM Pak around, were gone forever. IF you are lucky > enough to get some of those shots or video footage, I strongly suggest that > you duplicate it and keep a copy in another place." > > Wouldn't it be great if we could join together and digitize some of these > old films, maybe store them at some resource similar to the dojang list or > other such server, and all be able to share and enjoy them in perpetuity? > If there needed to be monetary contributions to make such a project happen, > I, and I suspect many others, would be happy to contribute... I could provide a place to store them on the website server. Plus I'm in the (slow) process of updating the site, so this would be a good time. There are already a few mpegs (mov) of taekkyon and the sine wave being demoed in the archive/ftp area. But it isn't all that easy to find and use so I don't think they've been downloaded all that frequently. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:37:37 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: memories Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/14/2006 6:42:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: background...these are priceless video's to me and priceless memories also.... what kind of memory lane stuff do ya'll have?? I remember trading Master Whalen some firewood for a Blue Dobok of his that I liked . As we through the firewood on the pile we broke open a nest of yellow jackets......Damn I can remember sprinting away from there screaming like a little girl JAck --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Erik Kluzek Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:40:31 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: scoliosis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I would like to raise the issue of lower back problems and > martial arts training. > > For those of you with medical backgrounds what would be your > understanding > of the following, how would you treat it, and what effects do you > think it > would have on martial arts training? > "There is shallow scoliosis through the lumbar area, convex right, > with > reverse curve seen at the thoracolumbar junction. There is minor > anterior > osteophytic lipping from the vertebral bodies distally." > I don't have extensive medical background -- but I'll throw something out. I can at least recognize the first part about scoliosis in the lumbar region -- and this is something I have. In my case my left leg is about 1/2" shorter, and as a result I have scoliosis in the lumbar region. As a result I've periodically had times where I've had intense lower back pain. In terms of treatment Chiropractic care, physical therapy, a lift in my left shoe and orthotics in both shoes have been very helpful. In general my martial arts training has been very helpful -- in terms of strengthening the whole back, the abdominals and working on keeping good back posture. If my low back pain flares up -- there are times I've had to scale back training, and especially limit any spinning kicks that I do. In general I train without shoes, but sometimes use Tae Kwon Do shoes and my orthotics when I'll be doing a lot of standing (when watching testing for example). My Grandmaster -- Kim, D.H., of Tucson tells me that he has doctors refer students to his classes to help with back pain. Erik Kluzek !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "julie" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Lower Back Problem Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:36:43 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Morgan: A few questions about this individual: 1) How old is this individual? 2) If low back pain prompted the x-ray, what kind of pain is experienced (sharp, dull, achy, pulsating)? 3) How often is the pain experienced? (is it constant, intermittent, activity related, etc.) 4) Does the pain radiate anywhere else in the body? 5) When did this symptom occur? 6) Was there a trauma involved to precipitate the pain? Now - without answers to the above questions - generalizations about the report: This report sounds like a plain film x-ray report. Given this information and the assumption that this individual is experiencing low back pain and wants to continue in the martial arts, I would suggest that this person see a chiropractor to have the area evaluation with an evaluation and exam. This report, in English, is simply stating "there is a very small curve to the right in the lumbar spine with a small curve toward the front in the area where the thoracic spine transitions into the lumbar spine. There is also mild evidence of some early degeneration on the vertebral bodies." I have seen x-rays that could easily be described in a very similar fashion, and do not limit those patients at all. My main rule of thumb is simply "get adjusted regularly by a chiropractor, stay active, and if something hurts while you are doing it ... Stop. Stretch the area and if the pain goes away, try the activity again. If it doesn't go away, don't resume the activity until you can see your doc and get adjusted. Another adjunct to chiropractic adjustments would be acupuncture and massage therapy. These methods of health care can do wonders for early degeneration and pain syndromes. Of course I'll be more adamant about chiropractic care since I'm a chiropractor, but this x-ray report describes a chiropractic patient. There is nothing listed in that report that would make me think that this individual should stop doing martial arts. If this individual is experiencing low back pain (and I'm guessing that is why the x-ray was taken), then this person should also work on strengthening the core muscles and stability. These can be accomplished with some simple exercises. Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to email off-list if needed. Julie Howard, RN, DC (Oh, I also saw the post from Tim about NSAID's - please be careful if you are taking them. They can cause problems with ulcers, kidney and liver disease if they are taken long term. Also, covering up the pain does not help you find the cause of the pain, thus not allowing you to work on correcting the problem.) ************************* >For those of you with medical backgrounds what would be your understanding >of the following, how would you treat it, and what effects do you think it >would have on martial arts training? >"There is shallow scoliosis through the lumbar area, convex right, with >reverse curve seen at the thoracolumbar junction. There is minor anterior >osteophytic lipping from the vertebral bodies distally." ************************* --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest