Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 03:01:48 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #30 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Doing and teaching... there is a difference (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Old Masters (Bruce Sims) 3. Re: TKD sparring (Damian Adams) 4. video clip; forward piercing palm (Jye nigma) 5. Re: The Temple of Ken (Ken McDonough) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 14:18:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Doing and teaching... there is a difference Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bob writes: > When we are younger we should be able to do anything within our > syllabus. Not > only because we are younger and fitter but also because the techniques > required of us are simpler. How many 7th or 8th dans are there > around who have > the physical capabilities of a 20, 30 or even 40 year old? I mean a > proper and > worthy 7th or 8th dan not a self appointed charlatan. > > Of course there are younger people who call themselves high rank > but the proof > is in the doing. Really it's a self regulating system. If someone > has the > knowledge and can walk the walk, they deserve the rank. If they > have the > knowledge and could walk the walk when they were younger/fitter, > they deserve > the rank. If they don't have the knowledge or never had the ability > - they > deserve only scorn and pity. Hello Bob. JR West recently posted that HE was NEVER able to do a flying 360. Personally, I would pity anyone who scorns or has pity for him lol. I stand by my position that some of the best Instructors I have seen were/are NOT capable of doing everything there is in their curriculum. Looking at my own situation, it is/was not possible for me to do some of the things in my curriculum simply because of my size. Yet, some even say I actually walked the talk, and I took it as quite a compliment to have a Master like JR call me a "player":) However, I had to adapt techniques I was not able to perform to my body. I constantly had to make adjustments as I went along, and I had to do that without permanently changing the original technique in order to teach those whose bodies they were designed for. Curriculums vary a great deal, and when you look at some that contain Hyung, Gum Sool, Bong Sool, Johk Sool, Sooki Sool, Kyuk Pa, Nak Bup, Ki Bup, Ho Shin Sool, and on and on, I can confidently say that, in 55 years on the mat, I have seen VERY few that were good at every single aspect of training. Most of us have preferences, and that is what we can expect to get pretty good at. Nevertheless, as an instructor, you better know the entire curriculum (including the stuff you are not so good at) if you plan to teach the entire curriculum. When young, students have not come close to learning everything there is in a curriculum; hence, to assume a young practitioner should be able to perform all there is in the curriculum does not apply in the first place. Second, when you say: "if someone has the knowledge and walk the talk, they deserve the rank", there is a BIG difference in having the knowledge and being able to perform flying 360s with a 250 lb body on a 6'6 frame. Last, most of us who have reached 7 and 8 dahn are most likely in our late 50 or 60s, and I truly don't believe we need to stop teaching or even performing demos that look less spectacular than they did when we were young. When we are talking about teaching... the proof is not in what we do, but it is in how well our students can do what we have taught them. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:08:28 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Old Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: I have been reading with interest the many comments about people getting old and what old people can and cannot do--- and how that might be interpreted. As someone who is arguably closer to the end than the beginning I thought I would take a moment and point out that noone has mentioned the large number of folks who "retire" pre-maturely from the mat. Truth be told, if I had listened to a doctor back when I was in Kyokushinkai I would never have made it to Hapkido. Apparently the fundamental answer to the majority of ills in the States is to follow the docotrs advise to go how and stay very still for the rest of your life. Maybe the other side of the coin is to go out in a blaze of glory on the mat. I don't see anything heroic in self-destruction. Good Buddhist that I am I suppose that I should be advocating for the Middle Path, yes? And, in a way I am. Call it "Middle Path with an Attitude". It this approach I surrender an activity only when it becomes apparent that I simply cannot do it in any way shape or form. For this reason I still keep the jump spin kicks in two of the YON MU KWAN hyung because I have not proven to myself that I am completely unable to execute these techniques. I am not offering this observation to blow my horn but to make a point about something that I have observed. That observation is to watch people make-up reasons for not doing something well before the point that they actually can't do something. In this way "old teachers" become old at the age of 40 simply because they convince themselves that they should not be doing something. What follows is weight-gain, poor stamina and loss of skill level. Once these things start to kick in then the _pre-mature retirement is just a rationalization away. Any time I start making excuses to myself I remember the clip of GM Joon Rhee pumping out 100 push-ups in 60 seconds. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 08:02:59 +1030 From: Damian Adams To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TKD sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry for the late reply. It was the weekend here and I only check this at work. >I have been out of the Olympic style sparring for a few years, but what is the >deal with that knock-out that was on the video clip?! Is it common practice >to give someone a standing-8 count when the person is clearly out and is >practically dead???? I would think that as soon as the person hit the ground, >it was clear that medical attention was needed. Am I wrong here? Clint, it is possible to call an end to the bout as soon as the person hits the ground or when ever you deem it necessary. The doctor can and in this instance should have been called during the count. I'm not sure if a verbal call was made for medical attention, but it is usually possible to finish the count by the time attention arrives. As this was the olympics I am sure that the referee did not want to provide any recourse if the person miraculously got up within the 8 seconds and was given out. As for those that are discussing the validity or lack there of, of having the hands down in this type of sparring. First of all let me say that I always tell my students to have their hands up. However, have you ever tried to hit one of these guys that are at THIS level and I'm not talking just about the best student in your dojang, I'm talking international level competition. It is not as easy as you think. Their evasive skills are pretty amazing. From this same view point I have probably seen just as many people been hit up the side of the head even with their hands up. >From the competition side as a referee myself, probably greater than 80% of points scored are on the torso (very rarely does one see good scoring head shots at the elite level). As a result the style evolved to hands down to protect the torso from scoring shots. It's not so much of just hands down (beiong lazy) but a strategic placement of the arms to prevent scoring. Regards Damian. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:27:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip; forward piercing palm Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=Sp92CLWj4TM --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it! --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 21:38:26 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: "martialscience@topica.com" , "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The Temple of Ken Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yo: The huge 40 x 80 ft workshop steel building with workout area is complete. I have a separate workout room with shower, bathroom, and toilet. Surrounded by large oaks and hickories. In the workout area, I will have the boxing equipment, mats, Mook Jung, exercise equipment, and my secret dungeon (thats another story). In the workshop area, I will have the 57 Chevy, 67 Chevelle SS, and 67 Chevelle Malibu. Also put in a basketball court. 15 years of planning has reached fruition. Joking aside, this is the dream realized. I shall name it "The Temple of Ken." Ciao, Ken McDee P.S. Concrete is expensive man. Your crosseyed, bucktoothed, bowlegged, pigeontowed, hunchback with slight drooling problem friend. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest