Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:01:52 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #41 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Be safe out there (Ray) 2. Condolences (Sharon Tkach) 3. LEO's Firearm Training (Chosondo@aol.com) 4. Death in the Family (Richard Tomlinson) 5. Re: Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wo... (AMERHKD@aol.com) 6. RE: Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wollmershauser BB certificate. (David P. Zapencki) 7. Re: Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wo... (AMERHKD@aol.com) 8. Re: Death in the Family (Ray) 9. Re: Be safe out there (michael tomlinson) 10. RE: LEO's Firearm Training (michael tomlinson) 11. Real firearms in training (George Peters) 12. Re: Be safe out there (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I can totally respect that, but most LEO's hardly ever actually practice > with their firearms... It isn't about decades of hunting or thousands of hours of range time or weeks at Gunsite and Thunder Ranch or years and years of first hand experience living with loaded weapons around the house, etc. I have all that plus more. It is about safe firearms training. These are just the procedures that firearms trainers follow. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Sharon Tkach" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:18:24 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Condolences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Maldonado, I am sorry for your loss. May your memories of better times be a comfort to you. ~Sharon --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:44:13 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] LEO's Firearm Training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Tomlinson, you absolutely correct. I would say that 90% of police departments accross the country do not have ongoing firearm, defensive tactics and fitness requirements beyond their taining academies. Speaking from experience as a former FBI Agent-Defensive Tactisc and Firearms Instructor, the FBI has very strict requirements for it's entire agent population. Agents are required to shoot qualifying scores in at least four different courses of fire which includes but not limited to primary firearm, back-up waepon, shot gun, and MP3 Automatic rifle every three months. The same goes for defensive tactics, and fitness. Failure to qualify with his/her firearm would lead to that agent not being able to carry his/her weapon which means he/she cannot fullfil his/her duities and therefore won't get paid. And believe me, the Bureau takes this seriously. If an agent  is involved in a shooting, that agent's the date of the last qualifying score(s) comes into question. As an aside, one of my favorite videos is "Surviving Edged Waepons". Just my TCW. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster International Chosondo Federation Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo 7252 Valley Ave Philadelphia, PA 19128 215-483-5057 www.chosondo.com E-Mail: chosondo@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:05:19 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Death in the Family Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am not sure what exactly I have just read....I am sure everyone may be able to fill in? --__--__-- Message: 5 From: AMERHKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:31:08 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wo... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi: Thanks so much for the e-mail. I found this item today and have already faxed the NOCI form to ebay as an infringement of the rights of the AHA for which I am now the owner. Nice to know those who appreciate Hapkido have the back of a very special and talented hapkido grandmaster. Thanks again so much. Joannie Wollmershauser --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "David P. Zapencki" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wollmershauser BB certificate. Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:35:59 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Disgusting... -----Original Message----- From: tkdtom [mailto:tkdtom@tekennelly.gotdns.com] Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:31 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wollmershauser BB certificate. http://cgi.ebay.com/Hapkido-Black-Belt-certificate-signed-dead-Grandmaster_W 0 QQitemZ6598420348QQcategoryZ14428QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem P.S. to Mrs. Wollmershauser - I hope you can stop this sale. Tom Kennelly 2nd Dan ICHF 2nd Dan USCDKA _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: AMERHKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 20:03:32 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wo... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Everyone: I am appalled and think that this individual does not hold true to his rank in hapkido. Sad to see the lengths that someone will go. Hope I can stop this sale. Will give my best hapkido try. I am aso going to proceed against this person in a legal manner. et it be known this wi not be tolerated by myself, my children or the AHA. Sorry, Master Mike never sold rank to anyone, it was earned and this guy isn't going to do it either. This person is also a member of another hapkido organization now. My best to all Joannie Wolmershauser --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Death in the Family To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:27:33 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I am not sure what exactly I have just read....I am sure everyone may be able > to fill in? A listmember wanting to share his loss with friends... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:24:27 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net so then you should never practice gun disarming with a real gun?? >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:47:39 -0800 (PST) > > > I can totally respect that, but most LEO's hardly ever actually practice > > with their firearms... > >It isn't about decades of hunting or thousands of hours of range time >or weeks at Gunsite and Thunder Ranch or years and years of first hand >experience living with loaded weapons around the house, etc. I have all >that plus more. > >It is about safe firearms training. These are just the procedures that >firearms trainers follow. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] LEO's Firearm Training Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 02:33:58 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ian, In all the circles I've travelled in the FBI weapons training is considered basically the best..bottom line is you all practice what you preach...actually you all just practice and leave the preaching to others...heck that is even better..I like the mindset of practicing what you are gonna use and then becoming so familiar with it that it is like a second skin, IMHO anything less IS dangerous because you are not up to speed..and THAT is where the accidents and negligence comes in....I don't understand why many will advocate this with martial arts training but seem to think when it comes to firearms that a few shots here and there will suffice??? I don't get it.. I also like surviving the edged weapons video...man the first time you see that it takes away all illusions of what a knife will do to you in willfull hands... Michael Tomlinson >From: Chosondo@aol.com >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] LEO's Firearm Training >Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:44:13 EST > >Mr. Tomlinson, you absolutely correct. I would say that 90% of police >departments accross the country do not have ongoing firearm, defensive >tactics and fitness requirements beyond their taining academies. Speaking >from experience as a former FBI Agent-Defensive Tactisc and Firearms >Instructor, the FBI has very strict requirements for it's entire agent >population. Agents are required to shoot qualifying scores in at least four >different courses of fire which includes but not limited to primary >firearm, >back-up waepon, shot gun, and MP3 Automatic rifle every three months. The >same goes for defensive tactics, and fitness. Failure to qualify with >his/her firearm would lead to that agent not being able to carry his/her >weapon which means he/she cannot fullfil his/her duities and therefore >won't >get paid. And believe me, the Bureau takes this seriously. If an agent  is >involved in a shooting, that agent's the date of the last qualifying >score(s) comes into question. As an aside, one of my favorite videos is >"Surviving Edged Waepons". Just my TCW. > >Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster >International Chosondo Federation >Choson Kwon Bup - Hapkido - Taekwondo >7252 Valley Ave >Philadelphia, PA 19128 >215-483-5057 >www.chosondo.com >E-Mail: chosondo@aol.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 00:01:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Real firearms in training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Members, You could do what I did, get a copy of Shotgun News and either put together or purchase whole a demilled version of what you want,ie; sidearm or rifle. No big deal, no danger. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 22:51:10 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > so then you should never practice gun disarming with a real gun?? Well, in a trainer's world a live gun or live ammo is never (or seldom) permitted in the same area where one is doing disarm or retention practice. Does it happen? Sure. Negligent discharges also happen. Staying safe during any practice session has a lot to do with following procedure. Now all that said, I have seen special procedures be in place for special occasions. e.g. enough training blanks not available. In that case the procedure is to "triple check and triple tape and triple check again" the gun to ensure that it is (1) unloaded and (2) that it cannot be loaded by mistake. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest