Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 19:51:35 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #42 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Be safe out there (Craig Zeigler) 2. Re: UFC Gracie and Hughes (Dcuster52@wmconnect.com) 3. Re: Be safe out there (Ray) 4. Michael Wolmerhauser of India (Bruce Sims) 5. "Surviving Edged Weapons" (Brooke Thomas) 6. Hughs Vs. Gracie (Brooke Thomas) 7. "Fix Bayonets!!" (Bruce Sims) 8. AHA Hapkido Certificate (Frank Clay) 9. training guns (Don Ross) 10. Re: Phony cert (Beungood8@aol.com) 11. Re: injuries from unloaded weapons (tim walker) 12. UFC Hughes vs Gracie (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 13. Firearm training (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 14. Guns in training (WTSDA Bruce) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 08:35:31 -0500 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >> so then you should never practice gun disarming with a real gun?? >> > > Well, in a trainer's world a live gun or live ammo is never (or seldom) > permitted in the same area where one is doing disarm or retention practice. > > Does it happen? Sure. Negligent discharges also happen. Staying safe > during any practice session has a lot to do with following procedure. > > Now all that said, I have seen special procedures be in place for special > occasions. e.g. enough training blanks not available. In that case the > procedure is to "triple check and triple tape and triple check again" the > gun to ensure that it is (1) unloaded and (2) that it cannot be loaded > by mistake. > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > Firearms are supposed to be considered loaded at all times. If a pair are going to use a weapon for training, all parties should safety the weapon, remove the clip, and ensure the weapon is safe. If the weapon ever changes hands, this should be done again. 'gun's aren't toys' and should never be used by minors... ever.... just my $0.02 --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Dcuster52@wmconnect.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 03:15:31 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] UFC Gracie and Hughes To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Gordon, Don't be so quick to retire us oldtimers. Win or lose Royce Gracie will still be my favorite. Doug Custer --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Be safe out there To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:46:02 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > 'gun's aren't toys' and should never be used by minors... ever.... IMHO minors should learn about firearms, all about them. Learn to use them safely, plink, hunt, etc. That is the very best time to learn, and some of my fondest memories growing up... But we should now probably get back to KMA. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:14:37 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Michael Wolmerhauser of India Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I am proud to hear that Mrs. Wolmerhauser is taking strong measures to protect the legacy of her late husband's teaching, I think it is also important to note that this recent effort on E-BAY is but one of a growing number of issues that seem to be coming out of this area. In the past I have noted people reporting solicitations for sponsorship to foreign countries by people with whom they are not familiar. I have had at least two unsolicited invitations to market my books in India (for a fee, of course) and have also recieved requests for consideration for awarding rank to individuals I do not know and have never met. I make no judgements about these things, but would encourage the Hapkido community to remain vigilant. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:06:24 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] "Surviving Edged Weapons" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I did a quick (unsuccessful) search trying to find where I might buy this product...any ideas where I might find it and the approximate cost? Brooke Thomas --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:18:49 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hughs Vs. Gracie Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Matt is saying he is going to work on his hands and try and keep Royce standing in the fight. Obviously Royce will want to shoot. I hope that it doesn't turn into Royce laying on his back in the center of the cage trying to lure Matt into a ground game. Also, did I read that there are different rules for this fight than the normal UFC matches? Brooke Thomas --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 07:20:03 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] "Fix Bayonets!!" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Given the recent exchange about the use of guns and long-guns does anyone know if the focus in disarms (especially in the military) still includes the matter of dealing with attacks by fixed bayonets. With the passage from the M-14 to the M16 I know that bayonet is still practiced as an offensive weapon. I am wondering if the use of the shorter weapon such as the m16 and its AK counterpart has reduced the focus on disarming long-rifle weapons. To my mind it would seem to heighten the need, but thats just me. Anyone? Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 09:23:35 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] AHA Hapkido Certificate Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What is the update? What do we do if we cannot stop the sale? Maybe we should amend the letter to eBay explaining that people use fake certificates like this to commit fraud? Frank --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Don Ross" To: "dojang_digest" Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 10:50:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] training guns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On using 'real' guns for disarm/retention training: my 2 cents: Mr. Tomlinson, et al, are basing their view on THEIR personal firearm expertise/experience. As Mr. Terry and others have reiterated, it is not about YOUR expertise, but about ultimate 110% safety for all participants. Simply, are YOU willing to risk your life by facing the muzzle of a 'real' training gun handled by someone else? For safety, most do not train defenses or disarms with sharpened knives or swords [except for the mythical 'Master Stubby']. An aside re using non-firing replicas or demilled display models: sight blades, checkered safeties, hammer spurs, etc are sharp, and will shred skin when encountered in training. and finally, the cardinal rule of gun safety as I learned it: Never point a gun at anything you are not prepared to destroy/kill. pil seung, Don Ross, NRA Life Member Success is not final,failure is not fatal: It is the courage to continue that counts. - Winston Churchill --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 11:33:10 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Phony cert Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/21/2006 6:09:56 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: From: AMERHKD@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 19:31:08 EST Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Check out this ebay item. Someone is trying to sell a GM Wo... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi: Thanks so much for the e-mail. I found this item today and have already faxed the NOCI form to ebay as an infringement of the rights of the AHA for which I am now the owner. Nice to know those who appreciate Hapkido have the back of a very special and talented hapkido grandmaster. Thanks again so much. Joannie Wollmershauser -- __--__-- If it cannot be stopped ,everyone put in too high bids at the last minute, and then do a bid retract. This will prevent them from the sale. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:08:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: injuries from unloaded weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Remember: Nunchucks don't kill people, Ninjas do. timo "Fir Na Tine, Fir Na Au Saol" --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:27:06 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] UFC Hughes vs Gracie Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IMHO I think Matt Hughes is better at the standup, however it will not stay on the feet. On the ground Matt Hughes may even be better at ground control due to his wrestling background, however Royce Gracie is 200% better at submissions. I think it will go to the ground, Matt Hughes will end up on top trying to ground and pound, Gracie will fight from the guard and will submit matt Hughes in the first round. Just my prediction JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 12:48:58 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Firearm training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IMHO I too teach firearm training, and I work weekly with LEO. I also have taught for the East Texas Police Academy as a tactical defense instructor (Faculty Member at Kilgore College). In the Do-Jang I have a small safe. Polce officers come in for training in the same uniforms they wear on duty. There are times, however when they may wear BDU's for specialized training. Weapons are cleared at the entrace to the Do-Jang, ammunition is placed in the safe. We line up for training. I walk the line, as each officer removes their weapon checks the weapon, and presents it to me. I too check the weapon, and it is returned to the officer. I believe the officers should practice their tactics exactly, or as close to reality as possiable. I can tell you in the military they practice with real weapons, and sometimes live ammo. When an officer qualifies at the range they use their duty weapon. To ask an officer to practice with a 357mag revolver at the range and then carry a Glock 23 40Cal on duty would to me be dangerous. I think this is a simular issue. They should train with the weapon they will be carrying. It is however a good idea to to use replica weapons to practice disarming techniques because a perp may be carrying any type of weapon. However I have them wrestling, grappling, and practicing disarming techniques with the weapon they are used to in there holster. They become aware of its availablity to the prep while wrestling the perp down, and they become familar with how it feels in their hand when they draw the weapon during dis-enguagement. When I teach firearm defense training to martial arts students that are not in Law Enforcement, we use replica weapons. I believe this is the correct appoach on several levels, however with commisioned LEO, that carry a weapon daily I believe it is best to train with the real thing. Just my 2 cents JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2006 13:00:41 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Guns in training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you insist on using a real pistol, semi auto, revolver or long gun, there are products on the market to make it safer. I attached a link to one of those products http://www.copquest.com/38-1000.htm . To show I have no stock in this Co., you also can use the proper size rope or cord to simulate the plug by tying a knot at the end. Michael makes a good point on unloading pistols, if you remove the magazine on pistols, and there is a round in the chamber, all semi-autos will still fire (except for most newer S&W semi autos). When you unload a pistol, remove the ammo source (usually magazine) pull the slide back several times and lock it back. This should remove round in chamber, BUT you need to physically check the chamber with your finger to ensure there is nothing there. One other point that I have not seen in postings (if it has, I missed it, sorry), is that when training with pistols or long guns the "bad guy" needs to keep his/her FINGER OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD! Some takeaways are designed to break fingers, but breaking fingers, or tearing ligaments are not good in the training room. I tape off the trigger guard, even on the red guns I use. Also be careful with those front sight blades, they tend to tear up hands. You may also want to consider air soft pistols, they shoot a small plastic pellet, and safety goggles (that will not come off in training) must be worn. Muzzle velocity on the pistol I use (http://www.blowgunsnorthwest.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=J05140&Category_Code=AirSoft+Gas0) is 300 fps, makes a mark. Take care, train hard, but safely Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael tomlinson" To: Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:48 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] (No subject header) > agreed...if you are uncomfortable using an unloaded weapon then > defintately don't do this...if you don't know how to unload a weapon don't > do this...if you don't know how to check to see if the weapon is unloaded > then don't do this...if you don't know how to show someone any of the > above then don't do this...if you are an LEO that actually only handles a > firearm to qualify every 6 months by shooting less than 50 rounds then > don't do this...if you don't understand how to drop a mag out of your > glock and then rail the slide 5 times in a row to understand there is > nothing in it then don't do this...... > > for your information no one has EVER been shot with an unloaded > weapon...it was actually loaded but it was checked by people who didn't > know what they were doing..... > > you are right this is dangerous and not for people who don't know about > firearms...if you do know about firearms then it is not a problem and can > be done with safety and precaution.... > > I personally shoot an average of three weekends a month at 300 to 600 > rounds each session so I guess I am a little more familiar with this > subject.... > > but you are right that this is not for everyone.... > > Michael Tomlinson > > >>From: "rwood" >>Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Subject: [The_Dojang] (No subject header) >>Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:03:21 -0600 >> >>Michael Tomlinson writes... >> >>IMHO the best weapons to practice with are real firearms >>that are >>unloaded...BUT...at around 5 to 6 hundred dollars a piece >>sometimes people >>don't want to put their personal weapons out there to get >>yanked, twisted, >>and possibly dropped... >> >>Friends and neighbors, I as an individual retired from the >>Law Enforcement community, IMHO working with a REAL firearm >>is dangerous. Yes I read that you would unload the REAL >>firearm, however I have read numerous reports of deaths and >>injuries from unloaded weapons. Even unloaded weapons >>handled by professionals. There are a number of good >>weapon simulators out there. I have used the "Redgun" >>line for years and found them to be accurate and safe. The >>weights and dimensions are that of the REAL firearm. Their >>(Redgun) training knifes are good; however No Lie Blades >>(NLB) are better. I have used NLB and found the ability to >>see the marks made by the opponent's weapon(s) is >>invaluable. Introduction of a REAL firearm to the training >>environment is, (pardon the paradox and no insult intended) >>like putting a loaded gun in a monkey cage. FWIW, does the >>benefit of bringing a REAL firearm into the training area >>outweigh the liability? >> >>IHS, >> >>Rob >>_______________________________________________ >>The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >>The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >>Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >>Standard disclaimers apply >>http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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