Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:31:24 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #45 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: UFC Gracie and Hughes (Stovall, Craig) 2. Re: [Eskrima] UFC Gracie and Hughes (Jared Dame) 3. Oyama vs Hwang (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 4. RE: More Chuck (Stovall, Craig) 5. RE: RE: More Chuck (michael tomlinson) 6. Coping With Loss (Sharon Tkach) 7. RE: RE: More Chuck (Jye nigma) 8. Re: UFC Gracie and Hughes (jakskru) 9. Re: RE: More Chuck (jakskru) 10. Re: Oyama vs Hwang (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] UFC Gracie and Hughes Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:55:47 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On paper, this is a nightmare fight for anyone, much less a 39 year old guy who hasn't been a MMA contender in quite some time. I just don't see how Royce can beat him. Here's my "expert" analysis: Physicality: Royce cannot compete with Hughes on a pure physical basis. The age factor is there. The more glaring difference to me is in the body types. I don't know whether they're going to fight at 170 or 185, but Royce looks like a starved chicken in the mid-190's and Hughes always looks "jacked" at 170. The bottom line is that Hughes can probably walk around at any weight between 175 and 190, and cut the weight to make 170 come weigh ins. Hughes is purportedly one of the strongest individuals fighting MMA at any weight class. He is considered somewhat of a freak. Royce has an obvious reach and height advantage, but this ain't boxing. Camps: Hughes trains and fights out of Miletich Fighting Systems. He basically has a bullpen full of world class fighters that he can train with. Horn, Lawler, Miletich, Eilers, Sylvia, Stephens, Neer, etc. Guys like Rich Franklin come there all the time to train. Royce just doesn't have that kind of a camp to my knowledge. Iron sharpens iron, and Hughes is playing with the harder metal IMHO. Technical: Hughes is a better stand-up fighter. Hughes rules the takedowns against anyone you can think of, much less a skinny Royce Gracie. There's no way in hell Royce can put Hughes on his back and keep him there for long, so he's going to have to play guard. That's fine with Matt, he's arguably one of the best GNP fighters in the world. Royce might have a slight edge on submissions, but Matt is no slouch. See the Trigg fights and the GSP fight for proof. He's also coming off a win by Kimura against Joe Riggs. Matt can finish. Mental: Royce is tough as hell and won't quit. Hughes may be the Devil himself. Matt removed all doubt for me in the second fight with Trigg when he got out of the RNC, and then proceeded to pick up Trigg and run across the cage with him. That is just pure...mental...toughness. Matt is also not short of confidence. Experience: I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between beating Ron Van Clief's ass and getting in there with Trigg, GSP, Penn, Newton, Sherk, etc. Hughes has flat out beaten tougher opposition. Prediction: Hughes by KO or choke. By the way, I'll actually be rooting for Royce. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 08:15:47 -0700 From: Jared Dame To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: [Eskrima] UFC Gracie and Hughes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Gracie might just give Hughes a run for the money, but if I were a betting man I would say Hughes is going to tee off. Although I just want to say that the difference in personality between the two fighters is huge! Gracie is a genuine nice guy that I wouldn't mind being around in social settings, Hughes on the other hand looks and acts like a total ass. Now in a street fighting situation I might want to partner up with Hughes in order to keep myself alive. J On 1/20/06, Thomas Gordon wrote: > > I'm pretty excited about Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes. Any predictions? > With the new rules and age difference, I think Hughes is a favorite. > > http://www.ufc.tv/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=2098 > > Thomas Gordon > Florida > _______________________________________________ > Eskrima mailing list, 2300 members > Eskrima@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/eskrima > -- Jared Dame jareddame@gmail.com "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." Rene Descartes --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:13:26 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Oyama vs Hwang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Gladewater SooBahkDo" wrote: >I don't have any verifiable information to suggest that Mas Oyama trained either with or under Hwang Kee Kwan Jang Nim. Training under Hwang was unlikely, as Oyama was senior to him in karate-do (or tangsudo). Yong-i Choi (Mas Oyama) went to Japan in 1937 to study at a boy's military academy and later at Takushoku University in Tokyo. He studied karate-do at Gichin Funakoshi's Shotokan dojo, served in the Japanese army, and then trained in Goju-ryu karate-do for two years under Neichu So. From what I can tell, Ki Hwang studied karate out of Japanese books on the subject during the war years, although he may probably studied some kuo-shu ("national art") during his years on the railroad. >Hwang Kee was born in 1914 and began training at age 7 or 1921 with no breaks in training. Mas Oyama was born in 1923 and began training in 1932 at the age of 9 some 11 years after Hwang Kee. Because Mas Oyama had rank issued by Funakoshi at the Shotokan and Hwang Kee never really had a official rank issued I don't think we can determine rank by paper issued, but would be better served by using time in training as a gauge. This would mean Hwang Kee would be senior to Mas Oyama by 11 years. Well, actually, that means that: Hwang was older than Oyama Oyama had seniority in karate over Hwang In addition, both men studied ta'eggyeon as kids. Hancock's research on Hwang said Hwang also studied subakki with "an uncle." Oyama also studied "Shaolin kung-fu" with a 'North Korean" farmhand on his father's farm. Remember, in those days, "North Korean" could mean from Manchuria! Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com PS: See my article at http://php.indiana.edu/~burdickd/tkdhist.html --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 11:19:35 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More Chuck Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I love these internet jokes about Chuck Norris (the Mr. T one's are even funnier): 1. Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he has never cried. 2. A blind man once stepped on Chuck Norris' shoe. Chuck replied, "Don't you know who I am? I'm Chuck Norris!" The mere mention of his name cured this man blindness. Sadly the first, last, and only thing this man ever saw, was a fatal roundhouse delivered by Chuck Norris. 3. Chuck Norris got a perfect score on his SAT's, simply by writing Chuck Norris for every answer. 4. Chuck Norris sold his soul to the devil for his rugged good looks and unparalleled martial arts ability. Shortly after the transaction was finalized, Chuck roundhouse kicked the devil in the face and took his soul back. The devil, who appreciates irony, couldn't stay mad and admitted he should have seen it coming. They now play poker every second Wednesday of the month. 5. Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits. 6. Aliens do exist. They're just waiting for Chuck Norris to die before they attack. 7. Chuck Norris built a time machine and went back in time to stop the JFK assassination. As Oswald shot, Chuck met all three bullets with his beard, deflecting them. JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement. 8. Chuck Norris is currently suing NBC, claiming Law and Order are trademarked names for his left and right legs. 9. Chuck Norris's girlfriend once asked him how much wood a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood. He then shouted, "HOW DARE YOU RHYME IN THE PRESENCE OF CHUCK NORRIS!" and ripped out her throat. Holding his girlfriend's bloody throat in his hand he bellowed, "Don't f*&% with Chuck!" Two years and five months later he realized the irony of this statement and laughed so hard that anyone within a hundred mile radius of the blast went deaf. 10. The chief export of Chuck Norris is pain. 11. To prove it isn't that big of a deal to beat cancer. Chuck Norris smoked 15 cartons of cigarettes a day for 2 years and aquired 7 different kinds of cancer only to rid them from his body by flexing for 30 minutes. Beat that, Lance Armstrong. 12. Chuck Norris doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants. 13. Chuck Norris was the fourth Wiseman. He brought baby Jesus the gift of "beard". Jesus wore it proudly to his dying day. The other Wisemen, jealous of Jesus' obvious gift favoritism, used their combined influence to have Chuck omitted from the Bible. Shortly after all three died of roundhouse kick related deaths. 14. If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death. 15. Rather than being birthed like a normal child, Chuck Norris instead decided to punch his way out of his mother's womb. Shortly thereafter he grew a beard. 16. When Chuck Norris's wife burned the turkey one Thanksgiving, Chuck said, "Don't worry about it honey," and went into his backyard. He came back five minutes later with a live turkey, ate it whole, and when he threw it up a few seconds later it was fully cooked and came with cranberry sauce. When his wife asked him how he had done it, he gave her a roundhouse kick to the face and said, "Never question Chuck Norris." --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: More Chuck Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:13:42 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dude that Chuck Norris stuff is funny....hmmm...please don't tell him I said it was funny... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Sharon Tkach" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:43:56 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Coping With Loss Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >My question is, has anyone here had a similar experiance, and how did you >cope with it?? Clint, I'm very sorry for your loss. I had a very close friend who was also a student die suddenly and unexpectedly. It was very difficult at the school for awhile. You keep expecting to see them come in, or see them in your mind on the mat. With time, the pain will lessen, but until that process brings healing, you face it the same way you face everything else as a Black Belt -- with a strong mind, doing the job at hand and being there for your other students in spite of your personal feelings. There is no easy way through it; you just do the next thing. Best wishes to you in this difficult time, ~Sharon --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:07:17 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: More Chuck To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net what I found interesting his that I had no idea he was american indian. Jye michael tomlinson wrote: Dude that Chuck Norris stuff is funny....hmmm...please don't tell him I said it was funny... Michael Tomlinson _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] UFC Gracie and Hughes Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:12:27 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net excellent analysis...i too think hughes is just too tough... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] UFC Gracie and Hughes > On paper, this is a nightmare fight for anyone, much less a 39 year old > guy who hasn't been a MMA contender in quite some time. I just don't > see how Royce can beat him. Here's my "expert" analysis: > > > > Physicality: Royce cannot compete with Hughes on a pure physical basis. > The age factor is there. The more glaring difference to me is in the > body types. I don't know whether they're going to fight at 170 or 185, > but Royce looks like a starved chicken in the mid-190's and Hughes > always looks "jacked" at 170. The bottom line is that Hughes can > probably walk around at any weight between 175 and 190, and cut the > weight to make 170 come weigh ins. Hughes is purportedly one of the > strongest individuals fighting MMA at any weight class. He is > considered somewhat of a freak. Royce has an obvious reach and height > advantage, but this ain't boxing. > > > > Camps: Hughes trains and fights out of Miletich Fighting Systems. He > basically has a bullpen full of world class fighters that he can train > with. Horn, Lawler, Miletich, Eilers, Sylvia, Stephens, Neer, etc. > Guys like Rich Franklin come there all the time to train. Royce just > doesn't have that kind of a camp to my knowledge. Iron sharpens iron, > and Hughes is playing with the harder metal IMHO. > > > > Technical: Hughes is a better stand-up fighter. Hughes rules the > takedowns against anyone you can think of, much less a skinny Royce > Gracie. There's no way in hell Royce can put Hughes on his back and > keep him there for long, so he's going to have to play guard. That's > fine with Matt, he's arguably one of the best GNP fighters in the world. > Royce might have a slight edge on submissions, but Matt is no slouch. > See the Trigg fights and the GSP fight for proof. He's also coming off > a win by Kimura against Joe Riggs. Matt can finish. > > > > Mental: Royce is tough as hell and won't quit. Hughes may be the Devil > himself. Matt removed all doubt for me in the second fight with Trigg > when he got out of the RNC, and then proceeded to pick up Trigg and run > across the cage with him. That is just pure...mental...toughness. Matt > is also not short of confidence. > > > > Experience: I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between beating Ron > Van Clief's ass and getting in there with Trigg, GSP, Penn, Newton, > Sherk, etc. Hughes has flat out beaten tougher opposition. > > > > Prediction: Hughes by KO or choke. > > > > By the way, I'll actually be rooting for Royce. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: More Chuck Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:10:39 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net dude, that was too funny....wouldnt mind seeing the mr t ones...where are they posted? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More Chuck > I love these internet jokes about Chuck Norris (the Mr. T one's are even > funnier): --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Oyama vs Hwang Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:19:07 -0800 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On Jan 23, 2006, at 8:13 AM, Burdick, Dakin Robert wrote: > > > Yours in the arts, > > Dakin Burdick > dakinburdick@yahoo.com > > PS: See my article at http://php.indiana.edu/~burdickd/tkdhist.html Recommended reading for all... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest