Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:54:24 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #47 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Gracie's Uniform (tim walker) 2. RE: Stovall's Analysis (Stovall, Craig) 3. Gi or no Gi? (Brooke Thomas) 4. RE: Re: Gracie's Uniform (michael tomlinson) 5. MDK (Frank Clay) 6. Re: UFC Gracie and Hughes (Alan Jay Weiner) 7. Re: Gi or no Gi? (Ray) 8. Re: MDK (Ray) 9. Re: Gi or no Gi? (michael tomlinson) 10. Practical self defense (SlaneSavage) 11. WTF School in San Antonio (BJ Pritchett) 12. By train from Seoul to Incheon--what's in a name (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:28:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gracie's Uniform Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> I heard he was planning on the purple spandex tights, but hasn't seen them since he lent them to a DD listmember.... timo "Fir Na Tine, Fir Na Au Saol" --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:40:27 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Stovall's Analysis Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<< Matt Hughes works out with world class athletes and Royce doesn't...excuse me!>>> Ok, ok...you're excused. <<< The Gracie's (oldest 2 brothers included) may be arguably the best trio in Grappling! I think their staple of fighters is amazing!>>> Not sure what "trio" we're talking about. Rickson and Royler are two of the greatest grapplers on the planet. Relson is supposedly incredible even at his age, but he lives in Hawaii. Their family pedigree cannot be put to question, but my only point is that Matt Hughes has guys to train with that are PROVEN in that Octagon. Royce has got to have STRONG wrestlers to train with in order to really get ready for Hughes. IMHO, grappling with other jiu-jitsu guys is not the most optimal way to train for it. Royce has great students and legendary family all over the globe, but Matt's got access to what is arguably North America's current Mecca of MMA right there in his neck of the woods. Royce is no fool and I'm sure he'll prep well, but Matt had the much shorter putt in terms of getting his team ready for this campaign. Just MHO. <<< You think Matt will "out-physical" him. Tell that to Akebono! The 450lb. Sumo Grandchampion got tapped out in about 1:30 by Royce and Royce was on his back the entire time.>>> I would argue that Akebono knew little of submissions and a lifetime of Sumo will teach you little about what to do when it hits the Mat. Yes, Royce smoked him with that funky omoplata/wrist lock combo, but Matt Hughes has become a bit of a submission machine. He won't be caught so easy. Sorry, but I really do think Matt will "thug" him all over the Octagon. I hate to think what will happen if Matt can get Royce "shouldered" like he so loves to do. Royce just doesn't have the muscular armor to take too many slams into the side of the cage. <<< And the last time I checked, Ken Shamrock was at the top of his game when Royce submitted him in about 60 seconds.>>> Not to discount what he did, but Ken didn't know that sleeve choke from a knock-knock joke. He just got slicked, IMHO. Ken and Frank then went and learned the gi from Gokor, and look what happened in the rematch. Much different fight. Royce could do very little with him. <<< Sorry, but this is more evenly matched than you think.>>> To be honest, I hope you're right. <<< I think Matt Hughes is a stud. I love him!>>> I admire his game, but after watching TUF2 I honestly think the guy is a King D!ck. Go Royce! <<< The Gracie's don't have much of a stand-up game, that's is sure! But if they go to the ground...I don't know!!!!>>> I honestly think Royce has little choice but to play guard, and you had better believe Matt will be working on nothing but dismantling the guard over the next few weeks. <<< Question to everyone...do you think Royce will stay with the Gi...or do you think he'll got with MMA attire (i.e. practically nothing).>>> Actually, I wish someone would clarify the rules for me. I heard about some rules changes, so I don't know if they'll allow it. I was under the impression that the gi was not allowed anymore in the UFC. Supposedly because choking with the gi was too similar to someone being garroted with a weapon (the gi is a weapon actually), and having state AC sanctioning is critical to the sport's health right now. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:57:06 -0800 (PST) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gi or no Gi? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I think it would be insane to wear a gi against a guy without a gi in a cage format...just too many hand holds, chokes, etc. And yes I understand that Royce may want to "lure" someone into grabbing his gi in the wrong location so he can do a counter but I personally think the risk outweighs the reward. I love to hear other thoughts the choice of clothing match-up? Brooke Thomas --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Gracie's Uniform Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 00:18:38 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'll loan the purple spandex to Royce and I'll even leave a little good luck funk in them for him...I think he is gonna need it...I love the Gracies and lets face it..they started the whole shabang...BUT...I think training and steroids have caught up to their level....should be good...but then again I thought that about the football playoffs last weekend too...boy was I wrong..two blowouts...speaking of blowouts...have you ever had bad gas in tight spandex???? It ain't no picnic brother!!! Michael Tomlinson >From: "tim walker" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gracie's Uniform >Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:28:36 -0500 > ><you >think he'll got with MMA attire>> > >I heard he was planning on the purple spandex tights, but hasn't seen them >since he lent them to a DD listmember.... > > >timo >"Fir Na Tine, Fir Na Au Saol" >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 18:37:03 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MDK Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The MDK originally used black but according to Master Hang's writings he changed it to blue after seeing a hwarang costume in a museum. The question I have is, since Hwang Kee passed and his son took over, there appears to be a renewed vigor wherein he is trying to isolate the name MDK. Does this only affect TSD or does it affect TKD? How can a US trademark be applied to say the Korea Taekwondo Moodukkwan Association? f. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Alan Jay Weiner To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] UFC Gracie and Hughes Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 19:38:39 -0500 Organization: Technology 21 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Can someone please tell me when exactly this fight will take place. According to http://www.ufc.tv/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=2098 it's sometime in May. I don't know if it's broadcast tv or PPV though. It's the first match I'd be willing to pay for PPV - of course then it'd end up being $30 for a 3-minute fight... Either Hughes would bam-bam punch and KO Gracie or Gracie would climb all over Hughes, get him to the ground and instant submission... $10 a minute? Yeah, it'd be worth it! - Al - -- -- Alan Weiner -- alan@ajw.com -- http://www.ajw.com Palm OS Certified Developer --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gi or no Gi? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:45:05 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I think it would be insane to wear a gi against a guy > without a gi in a cage format...just too many hand > holds, chokes, etc. And yes I understand that Royce > may want to "lure" someone into grabbing his gi in the > wrong location so he can do a counter but I personally > think the risk outweighs the reward. I think it really comes down to how much HKD/JJ each player knows. Wearing a dobok in a UFC sporting event can be a huge advantage for the person -wearing- the dobok, assuming they understand how to use the "third hand" it provides. So the issue may really come down to does your opponent have more dobok experience or do you. Those coming from the wrestling ranks will not have this background unless they learned it via other avenues... like the Purple Spandex School of Hapkido, Football and Shootin... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] MDK To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:36:24 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Does this only affect TSD or does it affect TKD? How can a US trademark be > applied to say the Korea Taekwondo Moodukkwan Association? I do not believe that the KTKDMDKA is at all concerned. They will continue to do business as usual from their Seoul headquarters. The PanAmerican Moo Duk Kwan Society (www.moodukkwansociety.com) is the Americas link back to (President) CHON Jae-kyu and the Korea TKD MDK Assoc. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gi or no Gi? Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 01:53:59 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net DOBOKS....WE DOAN KNEE NO STINKIN DOBOKS!!! Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gi or no Gi? >Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 16:45:05 -0800 (PST) > > > I think it would be insane to wear a gi against a guy > > without a gi in a cage format...just too many hand > > holds, chokes, etc. And yes I understand that Royce > > may want to "lure" someone into grabbing his gi in the > > wrong location so he can do a counter but I personally > > think the risk outweighs the reward. > >I think it really comes down to how much HKD/JJ each player knows. >Wearing a dobok in a UFC sporting event can be a huge advantage for >the person -wearing- the dobok, assuming they understand how to use >the "third hand" it provides. So the issue may really come down to does >your opponent have more dobok experience or do you. Those coming from >the wrestling ranks will not have this background unless they learned it >via other avenues... like the Purple Spandex School of Hapkido, Football >and Shootin... :) > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 02:38:20 +0000 (GMT) From: SlaneSavage To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Practical self defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Out of lurk mode Just felt it was time to express my humble appreciation and many thanks to all the regular contributors to the DD, your input is invaluable, keep up the good work. Ray, you especially are to be commended, for your time and impartial moderation on this forum, sincere thanks and utmost respect. Slane Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative. Oscar Wilde FWIW here us a link to a MA from the UK, Geoff Tompson, one who has walked the walk, his practical insight on violence has been a personal illumination. http://www.geoffthompson.com/ --------------------------------- Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "BJ Pritchett" To: Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:21:38 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF School in San Antonio Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fellow Instructors, I have a teenage student who may be moving to San Antonio (near Lackland area) in about four/five months. She is a brown belt (3 gup) in TKD. She is studying the WTF curriculum - with particular emphasis on the Tae Guk series of forms. Does anyone know of a good instructor in this area so she wouldn't have to learn all new forms and such? She easily has the technique and power to fit into adult classes, but would fit in better with other teens. Please advise soonest so I can help console some nerves. She wants to continue training but is nervous about switching schools/styles after training in this so long. I have told her cross training is good, but she wants a black belt in this before she switches styles... Feel free to email me directly if you know of a school or post the response. I'll see either one. Appreciate any guidance you all can provide Respectfully Yours, In the Arts BJ Pritchett --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 20:49:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] By train from Seoul to Incheon--what's in a name Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Fowarding. Of possible interest... All right, it's my turn to ask a vexing question. The question and its motivation are arcane and necessarily long, so my apologies in advance, and please feel free to skip this posting entirely. (For consistency's sake, I'm using McCune-Reischauer for almost all place names in this article, both historical and modern. Some names go by different renditions today.) Korea's first railway line was built during the era of foreign concessions, at the close of the 19th century. In 1899, a line was opened connecting Noryangjin (across the river from the city gates of Hanso^ng--modern-day Seoul) with Chemulp'o in Inch'o^n, the forerunner of today's Kyo^ngin Line. (The Noryangjin-Kuro stretch is now part of the Kyo^ngbu Line to Pusan, a 6-track artery served by everything from the high-speed KTX to lowly, packed-to-the-handrails local Line 1 subway trains.) Historical articles on the early development of Korean railways invariably refer to the original 1896 line as the Kyo^nginso^n (so^n = Line; http://www.korail.go.kr/2003/100th/year/index1.html) or Kyo^ngin Ch'o^lto (Railway; http://webzine.korail.go.kr/20050402/00250.html). If the line was in fact so named in 1896--which is not at all clear--this would indicate that the characters in the line's name were chosen because the line connects the capital (so^ul kyo^ng) with Inch'o^n (o^jil in). The Kyo^ngbu (to Pusan, opened 1905) and Kyo^ngu^i Lines (to Sinu^iju, 1906) appear to have been named on a similar pattern. The sticking point is that, up until 1910, Seoul's name was Hanso^ng, and thereafter changed by or under the Japanese authorities to Kyo^ngso^ng. Long-time Korean practice before and since has been to name many provinces, transportation routes, or events by joining together one character from each of the two place names involved: thus, Ch'ungch'o^ng-do (Ch'ungju-Ch'o^ngju); the Kyo^ngjo^n (Kyo^ngsang-Cho^lla) railway line; the Kuma (Taegu-Masan) Expressway; and relevant to the recent discussion, the Puma (Pusan-Masan) Uprising(s) (?--cannot find their mention now). Why, then, was the original railway called not, say, the Hanin (Hanso^ng-Inch'o^n) Ch'o^lto, but the somewhat contrived Kyo^ngin Ch'o^lto? That Seoul was not officially named as such until one year after liberation in 1946 does not preclude the possibility that the word "so^ul" ("capital") was used colloquially to refer to the city prior to that time. When streetcars first came to the capital in 1898, the operating company--Hanso^ng Cho^ngi Hoesa--was referred to in English as the "Seoul Electric Co." (http://www.seoul.go.kr/life/life/culture/history_book/picture_seoul2/7/1203339_3020.html , 7th photo from top; note Han'gu^l rendition of company's name as "Hansyo^ng Tyo^ngu^i Hoesa"). Could the character "kyo^ng" have had some currency as a written noun, equivalent to the colloquial name "Seoul"? It is also possible that the original railway had a different name and that the modern name--Kyo^ngin--has only been applied to the line retrospectively by later writers. Under this scenario, the Kyo^ngin Line and its pre-1910 younger sisters--the Kyo^ngbu and Kyo^ngu^i Lines to Pusan and Sinu^iju respectively--would have been so renamed some time after the Japanese annexation. In that case, the first character in each line's new name would presumably have come from the "kyo^ng" in "Kyo^ngso^ng" (the Japanese "Keijo"), Seoul's new name--the same character, but with a different story behind it. To summarize, my question, then, is this: Was the name "Kyo^ngin" chosen (over, say, "Hanin"), because the character kyo^ng denotes "capital," the Korean equivalent--Seoul/So^ul--being the colloquial name for Hanso^ng? Are there attestations in other (non-rail-related) sources to the use of "kyo^ng" (or "Seoul") to refer to the capital during the Choso^n Dynasty? Or is this a commentary on non-scholarly historiography, with modern writers retrospectively applying an anachronistic name to the railway, the original name lost in the mists of time? Or between the railway's concession holder--James R. Morse--and the Koreans with whom he worked, was this highly idiosyncractic name the simple result? Thanks in advance, Stefan Ewing --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest