Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 05:55:28 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #58 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Email Down (Thomas Gordon) 2. Re: Amen Frank! (sidtkd@aol.com) 3. JC Comment (Frank Clay) 4. Fighters V. Martial Artist (rwood) 5. THE LAW (Gordon) 6. RE: Fighters V. Martial Artist (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Fighters V. Martial Artist (Tim) 8. 19th Century demo (Ray) 9. New restoration projects for Seoul (Ray) 10. RP taekwondo jin fails drug test, loses gold (Ray Terry) 11. RE: 19th Century demo (Rick Clark) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:44:09 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Email Down Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My email has been down for a couple of days. Please resend anything important that was sent after Saturday, January 28. Thomas Gordon --__--__-- Message: 2 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 06:19:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Amen Frank! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Frank Clay makes a totally valid point regarding the fact that not all of Hack's cert's are phony. I had my own horrible experience with this guy as I mentioned here before. This forum is the only way to address this outside of court. Kukkiwon will not take any action. Sid --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 07:36:38 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] JC Comment Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You said <...Although the founders of the original Kwans may have wanted those things too, I believe they were more interested in reliable information either by instructors, books, or what ever method was available. So to compare Hwang Kee Adopting information for Funikoshi's books, and modern Martial arts adopting the Moo Duk Kwan name is not comparing apples with apples.> With all due respect, what would YOU say if I came to your school and said I had learned my forms from a book? I mean seriously? Or better yet, a video? This is not comparing oranges to apples. Master Hwang indicated that he created, or was involved in the creation of, these forms. MDK IS a historical name now. Like it or not, that is the case. I don't know how much luck they will have defending that one in court and I hope that someone with deep pockets will find out. I don't think that you can let a TM expire, have for many years people use the name and then come back and try to shut them down. It will end up being very interesting to say the least. f. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "rwood" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 10:15:36 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:20:38 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Don't forget that even in ancient Korea only the elite Hwrang fighters possessed the qualities that we consider core elements today. The MMA is still a very young sport and eventually they will come around or they will self destruct. Remember too that drama sells and just like in the world of professional wrestling some of the trash talk builds ticket sales. My thoughts, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:13 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist > << Martial Artists. They do not exhibit any qualities taught by any > respectable dojang. They are not polite, patient, or respectful of > others. Personally I believe them to give the Martial Arts community a > black eye.>>> > > > > A few rotten apples spoil the bunch, eh? I would say that guys like > Randy Couture embody the true martial arts spirit. To be sure, MMA has > it's share of goofy characters...Tank Abbot, Chris Leben, Ryan Gracie, > Enson Inoue, etc. However, there are numerous fighters in MMA like > Randy, Royce Gracie, Rich Franklin, and the like who are intelligent and > mature. They carry themselves with a dignity that the other fighters > should be quick to emulate, but unfortunately the road to the top in > this sport is often made quicker by "playing to the audience". And we > all know that the "bad boy" is often more appreciated in today's society > than the "quiet hero". Or, at least the squeaky wheel tends to get the > grease. > > > > Please...don't judge them all too soon. Points taken; I do not pass judgment on hearts; however actions or behaviors are plain to see and I do understand that “drama” sells. I agree that the Gracies are martial artist and they present themselves in a manner conducive to honor and humility. The question I have for you is; how does the image of the UFC help you sell the idea that the martial arts would be beneficial to the parent of an unruly child of any age? With the images of these guys running around, using profanity, obscene gestures, and demanding “what is owed them”, how can you convince Johnny or Sally’s parents that the martial arts instill respect, disciple, and honor? IHS, Rob Wood He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 13:18 --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:34:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] THE LAW Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "The 24-year-old, who cannot be named, said he was sexually assaulted..." This has always stuck in my craw. If someone alleges sexual assault, ruins someone's good name, then our legal system acquits the accused, why can the "false" accuser not be named? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 17:19:35 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rob writes: I do not pass judgment on hearts; however actions or behaviors are plain to see and I do understand that “drama” sells. I agree that the Gracies are martial artist and they present themselves in a manner conducive to honor and humility. The question I have for you is; how does the image of the UFC help you sell the idea that the martial arts would be beneficial to the parent of an unruly child of any age? With the images of these guys running around, using profanity, obscene gestures, and demanding “what is owed them”, how can you convince Johnny or Sally’s parents that the martial arts instill respect, disciple, and honor?>> that is a very good point, how do you balance out the concepts of fairplay, honor, respect, humility, and manners when we are constantly bombarded with quite the opposite on a daily basis? I am a high school teacher and this is a problem I contend with everyday. I kind of take the idea of practicing what I preach... young ones are very observant, that is their main mode of learning so before you can preach it to them you best be trying to live it or they will disregard the message because of the messenger...after that what do you do??? I know what I do but I would love to hear what some of you all do about this quandry with today's youth???? What's up ya'll?? Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Tim" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 14:29:57 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Tomlinson, You missed my point. The UFC is no more martial arts than WWF. I was merely comparing the lack of morality that is seen with what the Korean martial arts were prior to incorporating the teachings of discipline and respect. I feel that the UFC isn't meant to be a role model for your children. The teachings of right and wrong come from parents not TV. I would use Homer Simpson as a great role model ether but I enjoy him as well. If you have an unruly kid in your school, I suggest starting with the parents. Maybe the kids father needs his ass kicked in order to realize that his kid is out of control. Maybe they just need a phone call letting them know how their child is acting. I know if I got a call about one of my boys acting up I would address the problem promptly. I also know that not all parents are as upstanding as we would like them to be and for that I do feel for you in your position. I can tell you that I recently had a young man that I treated at work (FD). I saw him after he had just fought with the police and gave a cop a good run for his money. He wanted the cuffs removed and I agreed because sometimes being restrained intensifies peoples anger and makes my job harder. As the cuffs came off he wanted to get rough with my people. I simply told him in a firm voice to sit down and behave or I would give him the beating of his life. He looked at me and pondered it for a moment, then sat down and was a polite. He did see some time for assaulting the PD but he was an angle for me. Goodluck, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael tomlinson" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 12:19 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Fighters V. Martial Artist > Rob writes: > > I do not pass judgment on hearts; however > actions or behaviors are plain to see and I do understand > that "drama" sells. I agree that the Gracies are > martial artist and they present themselves in a manner > conducive to honor and humility. The question I have for > you is; how does the image of the UFC help you sell the idea > that the martial arts would be beneficial to the parent of > an unruly child of any age? With the images of these guys > running around, using profanity, obscene gestures, and > demanding "what is owed them", how can you convince > Johnny or Sally's parents that the martial arts instill > respect, disciple, and honor?>> > > that is a very good point, how do you balance out the concepts of > fairplay, honor, respect, humility, and manners when we are constantly > bombarded with quite the opposite on a daily basis? I am a high school > teacher and this is a problem I contend with everyday. I kind of take the > idea of practicing what I preach... young ones are very observant, that is > their main mode of learning so before you can preach it to them you best > be trying to live it or they will disregard the message because of the > messenger...after that what do you do??? I know what I do but I would > love to hear what some of you all do about this quandry with today's > youth???? What's up ya'll?? > > Michael Tomlinson > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:25:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] 19th Century demo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://videos.caught-on-video.com/Player.aspx?fileid=813FE2FA-2410-4A8F-B7E3-495DE755CD94&kw=143&p=5 Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:19:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] New restoration projects for Seoul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... After the tearing down of the Chungangch'o^ng government offices and the restoration of Kyo^ngbokkung and Ch'o^nggyech'o^n, urban heritage projects in Seoul are continuing apace. Recently, Jiyul Kim et al. mentioned some of the contributing events leading up to the Yushin Constitution of 1972. One such event was the "1.21 Incident," the Blue House raid of 21 January 1968. A direct consequence of that incident was the closing to public access of most of Bugaksan--the mountain behind the Ch'o^ngwadae, Kyo^ngbokkung, and Ch'angdo^kkung--and the section of Seoul's old city wall that runs along the top of the mountain. As it happens, the Cultural Heritage Administration (Munhwajaech'o^ng) just announced on 24 January of this year, the restoration and gradual reopening between April 2006 and October 2007 of the entire northern section of the old wall, from Waryong Park in the northeast to Ch'angu^imun, the old city's northwestern gate. Smack-dab in the middle is Sukcho^ngmun--the "main north gate" corresponding to Sungnyemun (Namdaemun) in the south--which will be accessible starting this April from Hongnyo^nsa, a temple to its northeast. (The gate never functioned as a major entry point into the city. Many old maps do not even show any roads leading to or away from it. As Andrei Lankov hinted at on this list in November 2004, the gate never seems to have served much more than a purely symbolic purpose [http://koreaweb.ws/pipermail/koreanstudies_koreaweb.ws/2004-November/004475.html].) In the same press conference, the CHA also announced the restoration of Kwanghwamun to its original appearance and location, slightly to the south and off-axis from its current position. According to the plan, the road in front of Kyo^ngbokgung will be realigned, and the Ministry of Culture and Tourism and the US Embassy will apparently move to new locations, to make way for a new plaza. Kwanghwamun will be dismantled this coming October, to be reopened in 2009. (That any of this will actually happen remains to be seen: the English Dong-A Ilbo article cited below states no agreement has yet been reached with the various parties concerned to implement these ambitious plans--including the Seoul Metropolitan Government!) Incidentally, despite the demolition in 1908 of the most accessible and visible sections of Seoul's old city wall in the Tongdaemun and Namdaemun-So^daemun areas, most of the wall surprisingly remains intact: over the top of Namsan in the south, and in a broad semicircle from Tongdaemun to the site of So^daemun, along Nakt'asan in the east, Bugaksan in the north, and Inwangsan in the west. Sources: - Dong-A Ilbo (Korean): http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&office_id=020&article_id=0000334148§ion_id=103&menu_id=103 - Dong-A Ilbo (English): http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=040000&biid=2006012564208 - Kukmin Ilbo: http://news.naver.com/news/read.php?mode=LSD&office_id=005&article_id=0000233338§ion_id=103&menu_id=103 Background information: - Sukcho^ngmun: http://100.naver.com/100.php?id=797640 - Seoul So^nggwak (Wall): http://sca.visitseoul.net/korean/relics/i_mountain_fortress09004.htm Yours sincerely, Stefan Ewing --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:27:30 -0800 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RP taekwondo jin fails drug test, loses gold Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net RP taekwondo jin fails drug test, loses gold A Filipina athlete who bagged the gold medal in taekwondo during the 23rd Southeast Asian Games has been told to return the top prize after drug tests showed she was positive for a banned substance, TV Patrol World reported. Robert Aventajado, Philippine Taekwondo Association president, said Esther Marie Singson's blood tested positive for "diuretics," a substance banned under International Olympic Committee (IOC) regulations. Singson underwent the mandatory drug test following the conclusion of the 23rd SEAG in December last year. The results came out out last week. Aventajado defended Singson who competed in the women's bantamweight division. He said that the substance detected in her urine sample may be from the slimming tea she took before the competition. "What she took was an herbal slimming tea that has some diuretics. It was an honest mistake. It didn't give her undue advantage," Aventajado said. He explained that diuretics is not a performance-enhancing substance, unlike steroids. He added that Singson took the herbal slimming tea to lose weight. Aventajado, however, said the IOC's decision is final and she would be asked to return her gold medal. The IOC has yet to sanction Singson pending an official statement from the World Taekwondo Federation. Singson's gold medal was among the 113 top plums hauled by Team Philippines during the 23rd SEA Games. Aside from the gold medals, they won a total of 84 silver medals and 94 bronzes. Thailand followed in second place while Vietnam was third. With the IOC order, the Philippines' gold medal tally went down to 112. The Philippines hosted the regional sports meet from November 27 to December 5 last year. --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:57:52 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 19th Century demo To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, Interesting clip - any idea who it is and where they are from? I saw it was from England, but not much else. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org >-----Original Message----- >From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] >Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:25 PM >To: The_Dojang >Subject: [The_Dojang] 19th Century demo > > >http://videos.caught-on-video.com/Player.aspx?fileid=813FE2FA-2 >410-4A8F-B7E3-495DE755CD94&kw=143&p=5 > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest