Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 18:37:20 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #78 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: rank in TKD - unregistered (Thomas Gordon) 2. Doping Regs (Frank Clay) 3. RE: Doping Regs (michael tomlinson) 4. Finding an Organization (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 5. Re: rank in TKD - unregistered (Christopher Spiller) 6. rank in TKD - unregistered (Stovall, Craig) 7. The Value of National or Iternational Rank (Dan Scholten) 8. wrong Mifune (J R Hilland) 9. Tae Kwon Dol belt Ranking by Master Dan (Dan Scholten) 10. Re: Lopez suspended (Jon Payne) 11. Re: Tae Kwon Dol belt Ranking by Master Dan (Thomas Gordon) 12. New to Hwarangdo (JENNIFER A LAWRENCE) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] rank in TKD - unregistered Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 23:30:12 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Pritchett, In our school, I really don't care where the certification came from. Basics are basics and either the student has it or they don't. A lot of schools aren't that way and they start the student over at the bottom. Personally, I think this is largely driven by money. I tested for fourth degree in a local school that has a great reputation. Problem is, outside of the panhandle of Florida, no one has heard of them. So I looked for a more national/international backing with Grandmaster Timmerman of NKMAA (www.nkmaa.com). If your looking for solid training, get in touch with some of the folks on this list like him or Grandmaster West (www.hapkido.com). If you're dead set on ITF, you may want to look into Unified ITF under Grand Master Hwang (www.unified-itf.com). Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:13:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Doping Regs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This anti-doping thing needs to be re-visited. It's getting ridiculous. People are getting suspended for cold medicines, taking medication to enhance hair growth and drinking tea because tea contains diuretics... and in truth ALL true teas ARE diuretics. This is almost like if you want to be an Olympian, you can't eat, drink or get ill. If there is cause to believe that someone cheated, bust them. But in at least two of the instances they indicated that they did not feel the accused cheated but they punished them anyhow. What kind of logic is that? So much for sports being fun. Frank --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Doping Regs Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 13:48:15 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I feel what you are saying...the big thing with diuretics being so controlled is that diuretics are used to flush the system and therefore they are viewed as a masking agent...unfortunately people keep coming up with ways to beat the system so the system has to be readjusted....sad but true... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Frank Clay" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Doping Regs >Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:13:58 -0600 > >This anti-doping thing needs to be re-visited. It's getting ridiculous. >People are getting suspended for cold medicines, taking medication to >enhance hair growth and drinking tea because tea contains diuretics... and >in truth ALL true teas ARE diuretics. > >This is almost like if you want to be an Olympian, you can't eat, drink or >get ill. If there is cause to believe that someone cheated, bust them. But >in at least two of the instances they indicated that they did not feel the >accused cheated but they punished them anyhow. What kind of logic is that? > >So much for sports being fun. > >Frank >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 08:21:40 -0600 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Finding an Organization Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BJ, I am no longer involved in Tae Kwon Do and have not been for many years, but I do understand where you are coming from. By the way, I have a young yu dan ja who shares your last name. I think you will find that there is no such thing as universal acceptance of any rank, regardless of your style or curriculum. There are many organizations that practice the chang hun tuls. In fact, there are now many ITF's. Usually, someone in your position can approach an organization and join with your school. There may be some requirements when joining an organization other than fees. For instance, in my organization, a yu dan ja joining the organization is expected to go through the next dan test with other dan rank candidates and accept the rank awarded by the testing board. Also, in our organization, as with many others, dan tests are held twice a year and are regional in nature up to master level. Then there is only one international test each year. I would suggest that you learn as much as possible about as many organizations as possible before you join. In addition, I would also suggest that you look at organizations that have other members in your area or where you expect to be. You need teachers who are higher than you so you can continue to grow. Danny Dunn <<<<<< How do I ensure I have my students rated under an organization if I don't belong to one? I know I would have to register them under ITF 'cause that's what I know, but I don't know how to go about doing that.>>>>>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 06:47:35 -0800 (PST) From: Christopher Spiller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: rank in TKD - unregistered Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BJ Pritchett wrote: > I don't feel my instructor was bad or wrong, I just > feel as an instructor > myself I'd like the students I promote to be > recognized and accepted at any > TKD school they would transfer to (I'm in a military > community) so chances > are good they won't stay with me forever. I have > faith in what I learned > and believe I am just as good as anyone of my rank, > so what do I do to get > myself and my students recognized in the ITF > community? > > Any constructive advice would be greatly > appreciated. > > Respectfully yours, > In the Arts > BJ Pritchett Mr. Pritchett, if you're interested in becoming a member of the ITF I would strongly suggest contacting Mr. John Cacioli, the VP of the ATFI (one of the U.S. organizations under GM Choi, Jung Hwa). He may be reached at 203-239-1111. I joined the ATFI a few years ago and have found Mr. Cacioli to be very helpful and easy to work with. I, too, have come up with an instructor who didn't get involved in the political side of things and so know a bit about what you're talking about. As far as my experiences with the ATFI are concerned that simply wasn't a big deal at all (I knew the ITF tuls and already had some experience with sine wave). I just signed up and continued going to ITF seminars when the opportunity presented itself (previous experiences with Gen. Choi and GM Choi were what made me want to join up in the first place). Since you're teaching you'll probably have to attend an official ITF International Instructors Course when you have the chance but that's a pretty good experience itself and I'd suggest it even if you don't join the ITF :) Hope this information helps and if you have any other questions please feel free to contact me. Taekwon, Chris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 10:06:23 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] rank in TKD - unregistered Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Why don't you just petition the NTFA? If you met their requirements then I'm sure they would honor your rank and issue the appropriate certificates. If this is the NTFA that I'm familiar with (based out of Little Rock under Mike Brown) then I know for a fact that they are a fairly close knit organization, and they should be aware of your instructor's credentials and the requirements you had to meet for your belt. Make sense? --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 07:24:41 -0900 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] The Value of National or Iternational Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Your problem regarding national or larger recognized rank certification is something that ever student should consider before they choose an instructor or style of MA to invest their life in. A good instructor will be certified by his state, national and international organization and be able to pass that along to you. However in the real sense of things a punch is a punch a kick is a kick and there are no bad styles only bad instructors but wouldn't be better to have both from the beginning. The reason for good regulation like the WTF is that any of my students can walk into any Dojang anywhere in the world and have respect for the quality of their instruction and be comfortable because the basic instruction should be the same. In the true MA way you should never accept or the Master should never give a black belt to anyone who is not committed to him and the art for life, his personal training and the dedication to serve and train others. I have been with the same teacher for over 30 years who is in the martial arts hall of fame and respect by many of the worlds great teachers and that advantage is passed on to me and my students. Politics is some times an excuse to refuse to be disciplined. Discipline is not punishment but teaching with love from father to son. I am over 50 but must still listen to and take discipline if necessary from my teacher as long as he lives. Regarding starting at white belt is not required, you should be able to go to a good certified instructor that will give you credit for what you know currently to a certain level. But also be ready to unlearn what you have learned any bad habits or things that must conform to the national or international standards. You need to be part of a large governing group. One man is just one man and when he is gone you will be lost. As my teacher says or reminds me what you teach your students may seem good at the time but you are in a small pond and the world is like a large ocean and some day your students will swim out into the world and you must prepare them for that and if you have not taught them the truth they will surely know then. Master Dan --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:18:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] wrong Mifune Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At the bottom right of http://www.aikidofaq.com/multimedia.html are two clips of Kazuo Mifune. JRH www.rrhapkido.com <<>> <<>> --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:02:30 -0900 From: Dan Scholten To: bjpritch@comcast.net Cc: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Dol belt Ranking by Master Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net BJ, You should be able to join the ITF for a fee, Also if you have studied and passed testing related to their standards all you need to do is get one person one level higher than your current rank to sign off on your Black belt degree. It is very important as an instructor that you can pass on national and international certification to your students so they can continue to progress no matter where they go and also return to you to continue in rank advancement some day. I have toughed it out with WTF so that I can if needed certify my students to master level if needed but as long as my master lives his signature is a collectors item, he has political pull and is in the World Martial Arts Hall of fame I pass on all my testing and fees to him 100% because it is better for my students. There is talk of the ITF becoming part of the WTF, I would be willing to help you join WTF and get rank certification, you could train and test with me by video and you could join a new organization WCTF for a lot less money World Christian Tae Kwon Do Federation. Any serious person deciding to dedicate his life to MA must consider there is more to it than punches and kicks and look to the future of the people you intend to teach and help in the future. There are too many self taught master's with out supervision and too many people who are greedy to keep the testing fees to them selves. I have never agreed with the westernization of MA for money it taints everything and has created a flood of paper tigers who's degrees are no more than paper. Black belts that cannot break a single board or have the basic skills of self defense. Train with and learn from someone who is close to the root of the tree who has been loyal to an organization and a master for more than 30 years and you will not go wrong. You may contact me at masterdan@gci.net --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Jon Payne" To: "The_Dojang" Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 14:26:31 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Lopez suspended Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "USADA and USA Taekwondo said Lopez had not taken the substance to enhance performance. USADA said the chemical is an ingredient in cold and cough remedies and is "particularly susceptible to unintentional violations." This is complete stupidity. How absurd is stuff like this going to get? It reminds me of a child that was expelled from school for drawing a pistol (on paper with a pen). After all Zero tolerance is Zero tolerance. Jon David Payne --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 15:18:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Dol belt Ranking by Master Dan From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I have never agreed with the westernization of MA for money it taints everything and has created a flood of paper tigers who's degrees are no more than paper." Man, you know that’s true. Like the Westerner Bruce Lee who charged $250 for a private lesson back in the late 60’s. (That would be close to $1400 in today’s money). He would receive up to $1000 for making an appearance at fairs or tournaments. (About $5500 in today’s money). http://www.findadeath.com/Deceased/l/brucelee/bruce.htm Or Patrick Chow who was a private student of the late Grandmaster Yip Man charging $50 a month in 1976 (About $185ish in today’s money...you know, right up there with many ATA schools charging for "leadership program" that many groan about) for monthly fees and refusing to teach the entire system. Maybe we can book Grandmaster Y.K. Kim.....at $75K. http://www.ourams.com/magazine/2005-01_west_feature.pdf Or the way some Korean’s give away ranks (to other Koreans normally) that teach Judo/Yudo as was posted on the DD a while back. Or a recent opening of a school about a hour from me where the Korean instructor was a third degree who had been out of practice for several years. He opens a school and I understand he is promptly promoted to sixth in Hapkido and seventh in Taekwondo. Not too shabby, from third to 6/7th in a month. That redefines "fast tracking." LOL! Yeah, us Western’s have more than our share of paper tigers and "high rollers" but it’s not so elusive from the Eastern's. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "JENNIFER A LAWRENCE" <5baron55@msn.com> To: Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:13:28 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] New to Hwarangdo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To the Dojang list members, Hello. I am a long-time practitioner of various Chinese and Okinawan arts (and dabbled in Balintawak, thus my membership on the Escrima Digest). I have recently begun training in Hwarangdo. The instructor is Master Tim Elliott, in Phoenix, AZ. He and his people seem to be not only very highly skilled, but also very good people. I would like to continue training in this system, and I am seeking practical advice on ways to maximize my practice. At 52, I am not a kid, anymore, and I do not delude myself that this will be as easy as learning Kenpo, in my 20's. I thank all of you, for any help you can offer. The realm of Korean martial arts is completely new to me, and I look forward to reading this digest. Yours in the arts, Mark Lawrence --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest