Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:50:43 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #82 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Principles of Hapkido (Patrick L) 2. RE: Yu, Won, Wha (J R Hilland) 3. RE: Principles of Hapkido (Lehr, Sage) 4. re: yu won hwa (Wes Heaps) 5. RE: Hwa, Won, Lyu in Hapkido (Howard Spivey) 6. Changes to Web Site (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 7. Help with Yu, Won, Wha (Don Kirsch) 8. Congratulations (Rudy Timmerman) 9. Re: Qi Gong (WTSDA Bruce) 10. RE: Three Principles... (J Thomas Howard) 11. Re: Yu, Won, Wha (ABurrese@aol.com) 12. congrats thanks (Ray) 13. Re: Principles of Hapkido (masterm1) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 13:39:16 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I can't remember a time in my Hapkido (Jang Mu) when water, circle, energy were not taught. That covers the last 32 years. I will ask my Instructor what he knows of its tie into Hapkido. I hope he can shed some light. Getting in the Way, Patrick --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:49:25 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Yu, Won, Wha Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Glad to see the DD getting back to KMA related subjects. We incorporate them in a secondary fashion into our curriculum, which directly stems from my diatoryu cross-training a decade before I first saw them used in main-stream hapkido. Congratulations Ray! Is her middle name also pronounced like yours? :) Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:57:20 -0600 From: "Lehr, Sage" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Again, you are taught these principals in all of your Hapkido techniques. The instructor may not give them names, but all Hapkido uses these principals in the techniques. With out them, there would be no Hapkido. Use some common sense and think of not using any of these principals...you would be applying/studying Hapkido. Helping Patrick get in the way, Sage HAHAHAHA -----Original Message----- From: Patrick L [mailto:musashi1953@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:39 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido I can't remember a time in my Hapkido (Jang Mu) when water, circle, energy were not taught. That covers the last 32 years. I will ask my Instructor what he knows of its tie into Hapkido. I hope he can shed some light. Getting in the Way, Patrick _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 14:55:52 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Heaps To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: yu won hwa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know from PERSONAL experience that GM Suh of KSW has been teaching, and explaining to all students during his annual seminar tour, the principles of yu won hwa for the last 22 yrs. and further more, i asked my instructor,Master Harmon, and he said that GM taught the principles at the very first seminar at N.O. in the early 70's. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 18:31:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hwa, Won, Lyu in Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net John, with respect, I don't believe this is accurate. There are indeed Korean websites and Korean kwans that speak of Hwan, Won and Lyu. As an example, have a look at the Jungkikwan website (www.jungkikwan.com). Or have a look at their DVDs. There is explicit discussion of these three principles both on the website and in the DVDs. This is noteworthy because this is a kwan headed by a man who does not have lineage from Ji Han Jae - his lineage is directly from Choi Young Sool himself. He trained directly under Choi for roughly 20 years. The logical inference from this is that he learned these principles from Choi. Furthermore, mainline aikijujutsu, by which I mean Daito Ryu under Kondo sensei, makes no mention of these three principles as a logical whole. Their approach is based on the notion of "applying aiki", which simply approximates unbalancing your opponent when applying a technique. I don't believe your post should be considered definitive. Looks like more research needs to be done. Regards, Howard John Johnson wrote: "This is a subject that has bothered me for some time. I spoke with Korea Hapkido Federation Planning Director Gimm June about this several months ago. He stated the Yu, Won, and Wha principles that so many western hapkido websites proclaim to be fundamentals of the art are actually not a part of hapkido. They are in reality aiki-jujutsu principles someone took from that art and stuck it on their website... If you look at the Korean website you will notice none of them discuss these Yu, Won, or Wha... I believe someone got on the web, decided they would sound official by taking aikijujutsu principles and applying them to hapkido..." --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 05:44:32 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Changes to Web Site Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello to all the DD members. I have just made some changes to my new web site. I have not yet changed the picture of me doing peet cha gi. Please log on to www.mdkegionsix.com and give me your feed back. Respectfully: JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Don Kirsch" To: "the_dojang" Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:25:33 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Help with Yu, Won, Wha Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just my two cents on the subject of Yu, Won, Wha... As Dave correctly posted these concepts can be found in Dr. Kimm's Hap Ki Do book. This is where I first encountered the philosophical concepts of as they apply to Hap Ki Do motion. After years of having the concepts of Hap Ki Do basic motion drilled (beat!) into my brain by GM West I made the logical connection that the concepts of balance break, decreasing circular motion and lowering ones center of gravity in basic Hap Ki Do motion are the physical manifestations of these philosophical principles . Whether or not this leap of logic is correct I'll leave for others to decide but it works for me. Regards, Don Kirsch Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws. -John Adams, 2nd US president (1735-1826) --__--__-- Message: 8 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 17:36:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Congratulations Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Congratulations Mr. and Mrs Terry. Here is wishing both of you the very best and a long and happy marriage. Rudy --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Qi Gong Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:30:22 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Our Grand Master has introduced Ki Gong into our Association. I has been recieved very well. http://www.worldkigong.com/ Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 7:04 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Qi Gong > Master Dan; > > Do you have any books on Qi (Chi) Gong that you would recommend to > someone isterested but has no experience. > > Brian D. Woodard > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Scholten [mailto:masterdan@gci.net] > Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:59 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] To Mark Lawrence regarding training at 52 > > Dear Mark since you have trained in some Chinese styles you should have > learned something about Chi Gong which can be shortened to a western > translation as Medical Meditation. Ten years ago I damaged four > vertebrae in > my lower back. I went back to what my Master had taught me, a half > Chinese > Korean doctor who had trained with Shoalin monks for ten years and the > book > heal your own back. I designed a three day a week work out routine about > 45 > minutes to 75 minutes depending on time. I not only healed my back but > all > of a sudden was able to teach TKD and do things better at 53 than I > could at > 20, more flexibility, better balance less or no pain working or > teaching. It > changed my life and I have had great joy in sharing with people that > have > never been off the couch to other masters who have seen a difference in > just > one work out. > > > > The basic work out starts with 5 minutes of Chi Gong breathing and > movements, then 5 minutes of lower lumbar exercises, then 30 minutes > stretching and breathing all muscle groups and joints combined with Chi > Gong, ending with a 10 minute passive spinal adjustment that aligns all > the > vertebra while you lay flat on the floor with towels after doing a > spinal > twist to melt the disks in your back. Your entire health will change and > gain an ability to do pretty much anything you would like to do with in > reason. > > > > Bottom line three days a week of light conditioning and on the heavy > days > consider any instructor should be teaching to your specific age and > health > concerns/ if it is not healthy for you or going to cause injury then why > do > it?? > > > > I would also highly recommend you buy and read the book Fit For Life and > Fit > For Life II This diet life style book is written with the concept of Chi > Gong in mind and can really speed up or assist with improving your > health > and energy. > > > > Master Dan > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:16:48 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Three Principles... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dave wrote: > Just an interesting note, and FWIW, on pages 88-89 of Dr. He-Young Kimms > "Hapkido" (AKA Hapkido Bible) he states that "In order to understand the > movements and techniques of Hapkido, one must study the theories of Yu, Won, > and Wha." ............Dave Pryga Thank you---I was just going to mention those. He goes on to discuss each concept in brief, and gives examples. It is only two pages, but it is very thought-provoking. I'll note: GM Ji indeed is an authority on Hapkido. However, that doesn't change the fact that what he says is not law. I find it interesting that he would say that these three concepts are not central to Hapkido AND that the people who talk about them have no idea what they are talking about. I mean no disrespect to GM Ji, and I certainly don't mean to compare my knowledge of Hapkido to his. That doesn't change the fact that his is not the only Hapkido. And what may be true with regard to the underpinnings of his art is not necessarily always true about other versions. Thomas H. (Who has Dr. Kimm's comments about those three concepts excerpted on his website, with a citation to Dr. Kimm's book. Along with a note that every Hapkido practitioner should buy a copy.) --__--__-- Message: 11 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:37:45 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Yu, Won, Wha Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hapkido II by Dr. He-Young Kimm discusses these on page 74-75. Under "Theory of Hapkido Movement and Techniques" Dr. Kimm writes: "In order to understand the movements and techniques of Hapkido, one must study the theories of Yu (flowing water), Won (circle), and Wha (harmony)." He then writes 3-4 paragraphs on each. Marc Tedeschi's book Hapkido (the huge one about the same size as Dr. Kimm's) discusses these on page 55-56. Based on some of the posts, it can be argued that Tedeschi has these in his book because he is an American writing about Hapkido. I do not know his sources for writing about Yu, Won, and Wha as the three principles of HKD, but it may have been Dr. Kimm's book, because Hapkido 2 is listed in the Further Reading section. Regarding my time in Korea, circles were taught the most. I remember many times my instructor insisting circles were important and illustrating various ways circles were incorporated into Hapkido. Principles of harmony and blending with your opponent's energy and principles of water were also taught, but not necessarily as "These are the three...." This may be an area I will discuss with them more next time. Part of my trouble was with the language differences. It was a lot easier to show me one of these principles and have me do it than to discuss. Yi-saeng says she remembers Kwanjangnim Kim mentioning these though. Regardless, these three principles have multiple applications within Hapkido and other martial arts as well, and learning, studying, and applying them is not a bad thing. It is good actually. I probably started incorporating them into my teaching and making my students know them and come up with examples of how the principles can be applied after reading them in Dr. Kimm's book Hapkido II. Just a little extra for the discussion. Yours in Training, Alain www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 20:06:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] congrats thanks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks for all for the congrats and well wishes. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:29:06 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with John Johnson that those principles must not be part of Korea Hapkido Federation teaching. When I was in Korea I was deciding which Hapkido school to attend The IHF under GM Jang Young Shill on Osan or the GM Lee Sung Jun of the KHF in Pyungtaek. I had a Book of techniques I showed GM Jang and in it he wrote people, harmony, energy, circle, flow together cannot be knocked down. I chose the KHF school under GM Lee and I showed him what GM Jang wrote and he said that was Japanese Aikido and crossed it out with a marker. My master said Sam ma eul Hapkido was the first nation wide Hapkido organization and that they would never use that teaching because it was Japanese. Master M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lehr, Sage" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido > Again, you are taught these principals in all of your Hapkido > techniques. > The instructor may not give them names, but all Hapkido uses these > principals in the techniques. > With out them, there would be no Hapkido. > Use some common sense and think of not using any of these > principals...you would be applying/studying Hapkido. > > Helping Patrick get in the way, > > Sage > > HAHAHAHA > > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick L [mailto:musashi1953@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 3:39 PM > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Principles of Hapkido > > > I can't remember a time in my Hapkido (Jang Mu) when water, circle, > energy > were not taught. That covers the last 32 years. I will ask my > Instructor > what he knows of its tie into Hapkido. I hope he can shed some light. > > Getting in the Way, > > Patrick > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard > disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest