Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 03:01:45 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #85 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: Principles of Hapkido... (Ray) 2. Re: Re: Principles of Hapkido... (jakskru) 3. Won, Hwa, Hyo (Bruce Sims) 4. Spandex and Beyond (Bruce Sims) 5. certification (steven riggs) 6. Re: Hapkido vs Daito Ryu Principles (Amed Hazel) 7. Re: Re: Principles of Hapkido... (masterm1) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Principles of Hapkido... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:46:17 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I think the point here is that if Gm Ji isn't familiar with it then neither > > he nor Gm Choi taught it. That covers the vast majority of Hapkido right > > there. > > Hmm. Even though other people who studied with GM Choi for a considerable > time use these concepts directly? It seems they picked it up elsewhere. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Principles of Hapkido... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:53:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net this has to be the most interesting thread i have seen to date...it even sparked a 30 min. conversation with my master during our jan bong class tonight...keep it up, great posts from all the views... --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:55:09 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Won, Hwa, Hyo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian, John et al: There is a curious pattern to be considered whenever these three bits come up and I only share this for whatever it may contribute to the discussion. I have been digging about in the privacy of my own research and still have not come to a solid conclusion. What I can say is that there are some philosophical underpinnings to early Ju-jutsu and Chinese ChinNa which seem to speak to these bits as attributes rather than principles. Saying this it would common, then to find someone, say, identifying "circularity" as a quality to be sought (attribute) rather than a universal principle to govern all practice. Where I have found people stepping across the line and making these attributes into "principles" are those groups that seem to turn up in the wake of the late Myong Jae Nam's attempts to reconcile Hapkido and Aikido communities. What I am finding is that after the formation and later dissolution of the Korea Hapkido Assn (1973 -1984) Myong established the IHF and most advocates for the use of these three principles seem to have crossed paths with Myong somewhere along the line. All of which is to say that I would not be surprised to hear that what we know as the principles today are attributes of Choi's teachings that bumped up against the Aikido principles of Ueshiba (through Myong) and came away looking more like principles than remaining as attibutes. However, if everything I just wrote is accurate I am at a loss to explain why such is not know to GM Ji. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:00:51 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Spandex and Beyond Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".....Anyhoo, feel free to shoot more questions. I hope this is the type of dialogue that you're looking for." Yes, That was EXACTLY the sort of discussion I was looking for. In your single post I came away with a much better framing of MMA than in all the posts I have suffered through previously. Very well done. The only problem is that its going to take a bit to sort out all the information. However, thats a problem I wish I had more often. Thanks again!! Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 20:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: steven riggs To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been reading with great interest the various comments about certification, the value of it, with whom, the expense and so on. I agree totally with Frank that there is no such thing as a totally acceptable and perfect certificate found on this planet. I too have wondered for many years as to why send money to Korea when there are so many great grandmasters and solid organizations here in America. Are we to believe that intelligence, knowledge, and skill can only reside in Korea? I have been in several different organizations as many serve different needs. I have joined and been active in many cases for the benefit of my students. I teach in NC and some of my students will be going to college in many other parts of the USA and my name will mean nothing. An organization however can serve as a solid point of factual information for an instructor on the other side of the country. On the certificates I give my students under my signature I have listed several organizations that could be contacted to verify that I am a member in good standing and that my ranks are in fact "legitimate". I have tested on numerous occasions and have had the bruises, lumps and bloodied dobak to prove I didn't purchase my rank, I earned it. I have instructors and organizations who would verify that and I have no need to send money to a foreign country to people who don't know me and have never seen my level of skill. --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:46:30 -0500 From: "Amed Hazel" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido vs Daito Ryu Principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well with GM Rim his teachings seem to be more in line with DRAJJ principles then the Yu Won Hwa. Although the principles are there but not really discussed. Amed Hazel -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.10/262 - Release Date: 2/16/2006 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "masterm1" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Principles of Hapkido... Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 22:52:40 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well don't stop there what did he say. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jakskru" To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Principles of Hapkido... > this has to be the most interesting thread i have seen to date...it even > sparked a 30 min. conversation with my master during our jan bong class > tonight...keep it up, great posts from all the views... > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest