Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:12:31 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #93 - 18 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Regarding R Terry fighting cane (Dan Scholten) 2. Master Amodeo (Jye nigma) 3. KKW Text (Frank Clay) 4. Re: Yu Won Hwa as principles (Raymond Navarro) 5. On the usefulness of history (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 6. RE: Re: Jeremy Anderson's point (Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)) 7. Classes in Jersey City (vytal01@aol.com) 8. Arnis in Jersey City (Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness) 9. RE: WTF/ITF Rank Certification/ U.S. versus International certification (Stovall, Craig) 10. Re: Regarding R Terry fighting cane (Ray) 11. Re: KKW Text (Ray) 12. RE: Kuk Sool Practice Straight Swords (Kevin Janisse) 13. RE: Re: Jeremy Anderson's point (Thomas Gordon) 14. Re: Re: Jeremy Anderson's point (Jeremy Anderson) 15. White man martial arts (MSKBEvans@aol.com) 16. Kukiwon Fees (Gordon) 17. Combat cane...again (J.R. West) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:55:03 -0900 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Regarding R Terry fighting cane Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Terry Good point on stock cane over custom made however its the weight and quality of the wood that matters to me. Also very good info on the CA. penal coder related to concealed weapons in the home. Even more reason for young people to careful what they possess or walk around with. Question? When I was training in the early 70's in California it was said in the Do Jang that a law was passed in San Jose that required a person to register with the police department at Brown belt level. The talk at the time was that people could get access to your picture and personal information because of this. I moved back to Oregon after that, never thought about it much until your comment. Master Dan --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 23:35:46 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Amodeo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Is anyone familiar with a Master J. Michael Amodeo? I believe he may be 6th dan and his wife is 4th dan. I was wondering if their school is still open in GA? Jye --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:37:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] KKW Text Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, This might be a silly question but are the new poomsae in this rendition? Thanks, f. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 04:50:08 -0800 (PST) From: Raymond Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Yu Won Hwa as principles Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all and be blessed. About HapKiDo having 3 principle being Yu Won Hwa is not important if they are or are not being tought as such but I can remember when I was starting HapKiDo back in late ´76 that the Teacher tought that For a good HapKiDo it was important if you wanted a good HapKido one was not to mix martial arts. That the principle of a good HapKiDo was that it was based in flowing, never using strenght and always going against the movement of the opponent with out using force and that HapKiDo-ka should move out of the way or re-direct the attackers movement. The HapKiDo Techniques are based on a circular use since it is harder for the opponent to control his strength if you move against him circularly. I gues that if You or I abreviate this it would be circle, soft and flowing and cicle is ofcource that, soft is like harmony and flow is water like. My teacher has always said that a good HapKiDo is done by the person moving with out using stregth because HapKiDo ussed energy not force but that the person needed to move like a Cat: relaxed, strong and firm but that his technical movement must be like water bacoming one with what ever was happening and this would allow HapKiDo techniques to go from one move to another but more important was that if your innitial technique failed you could continue to achieve your purpose wich was defende yourself with out having to restart but following to the succesful technique to achieve your need that is always get to be safe and this is done with good self defense. I am thingking to see if in my mind I forgot something, wait, hummm, ok in case of something else then latter. HAP Ramon Navarro, HapKiDo SabomNim, Song Moo Kwan HapKiDo in the Country of Panama   ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get a web-based email for life now ---> http://mail.hapkidokr.org --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:44:26 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] On the usefulness of history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kevin Janisse wrote: >To me, it does not specifically matter where or who the terms are from or what system came up with them first, that knowledge is trivia yet important to the historian. As a practitioner I am more interested in the How, What, and Why than the Who, Where and When. As a resident historian, I guess I'll have to take this one on. There's something called "historical context" that surrounds each historical artifact (including martial arts). Who, where and when it was created explains a lot about how and why it was created, and thereby allows us to appraise the artifact in greater depth. Admittedly, the history of the martial arts often gets pretty murky, and the information derived is limited, but we can understand a system better if we know who developed it and when. Can you give me an example of when the How, What and Why are not related to the Who, Where and When? Yours in the arts, Dakin dakinburdick@yahoo.com "If you would understand anything, observe its beginning and its development." - Aristotle "Clio, the muse of history, is as thoroughly infected with lies as a street whore with syphilis." - Schopenhauer --__--__-- Message: 6 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson's point Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:58:00 -0500 From: "Woodard Brian (ChP/TEF8)" To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Sid, Starting over is NOT necessarily only for money. I started over as a white belt. I looked at it as emptying my cup, and respecting my classmate's time in rank and their relationship with the instructor. I passed a few fellow classmates as I tested a little more often. But that was only because of previous MA experience, but I still took the SAME test as everyone else and in front of everyone else. NEVER once did I even think about putting on a belt from another school and expect everyone to give me the respect and privilege that goes with that within a formal classroom setting. They still respect me because I started as a white belt in the back of the room just like they did with the same instructor. I still had the skills of a black belt. After learning ITF forms, and starting over learning Pyong-An forms I learned that these different forms not only looked different, but they also developed power from a different place; so starting over made sense to me. As far as money; I didn't pay any testing fees until I reached one rank below where I was in my previous system. I'm looking to put on another white belt soon in Aikido. Since I can't find any HAPKIDO schools close enough to Charleston, SC :o( Best Regards, Brian Woodard -----Original Message----- From: sidtkd@aol.com [mailto:sidtkd@aol.com] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:24 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson's point Jeremy, I certainly respect your dedication in starting over 9 times! But if I were in a Bachelor of Arts program in one school and transferred to another, I know much would transfer with me. In two similar Korean arts, it would be ridiculous to start from scratch. Now if I were in Judo and switched to Kempo...THAT is a totally different story. The rationale for starting from white belt is only for money. Sid _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: vytal01@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:29:21 EST To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Classes in Jersey City Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dan - You can check out Kuntawkali.com. We hold classes in Jersey City and Hoboken , NJ. You can also contact me @ _vytal01@aol.com_ (mailto:vytal01@aol.com) Regards, Errol --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness" To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:57:14 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Arnis in Jersey City Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Check out Grand Master "Dong" Cuesta. Absolutely one of the best around. Web site is http://www.doceparesusa.com/. Any queestions let me know..Good luck Don Edwards www.imafit.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:12:09 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: WTF/ITF Rank Certification/ U.S. versus International certification Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Yes...resistance is futile. You...will...be...ASSIMILATED!!! --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Regarding R Terry fighting cane To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:32:31 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Good point on stock cane over custom made however its the weight and quality > of the wood that matters to me. Check out the stock canes. Same weight, just not as pretty. > ... Question? When I was > training in the early 70's in California it was said in the Do Jang that a > law was passed in San Jose that required a person to register with the > police department at Brown belt level. The talk at the time was that people > could get access to your picture and personal information because of this. I > moved back to Oregon after that, never thought about it much until your > comment. It was never true, just urban legend. You heard that a lot most any where in the country, esp in the 1960s and 70s. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] KKW Text To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 07:33:50 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This might be a silly question but are the new poomsae in this rendition? It would appear so. Latest info is that the new poomsae is just a slightly different way to perform the old poomsae. Time will tell... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Kevin Janisse" To: Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:12:19 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Kuk Sool Practice Straight Swords Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Thomas KJN, You can join the WKSA, train for a few years, earn a BB number and buy one through WKSA. You can order one through a WKSA BB that you may know. I make similar swords with choice of finish and polished blade. (My site will be updated soon showing examples & options). Contact me if you are interested. Sincerely, Kevin Janisse --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 11:10:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson's point From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have mixed emotions on seasoned students wearing a white belt. A karate black belt comes to our taekwondo school, should they wear a white belt? Yes, we’re fairly different than karate. But no, they aren’t "innocent" to the striking arts although unfamiliar with ITF mannerisms of doing martial arts. Same with a hapkido black belt going to traditional ju-jitsu or aikido. Should they really start over? And I’m not saying yes or no. My solid stance is...it depends. :) As an instructor, do you really want to put a 6-10 year vetern of karate in a white belt with others having zero martial art knowledge? Do you treat an instructor different than a student black belt? Again, these are things to mull over and I’m not sure there is 100% correct answer that is a blanket solution. I watched a guy run all over the other competitors at a sport ju-jitsu tournament in the white belt division. No one had a chance. Of the 3-4 matches, I think only one point was scored on him as he shut most of the other competitors out. (I hate it when that happens...) Come to find out, he held a 2nd-3rd degree in karate. It wasn’t fair to the other competitors and he should have been ashamed of himself. I have no trouble wearing a white belt and requested when we (being my side-kick and bride) started training in traditional ju-jitsu under a tenth degree. He wouldn’t let us wear white belts even though we specifically requested. Similar situation when we started hapkido training. Just something to consider. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 09:18:11 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Jeremy Anderson's point To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sid, You're correct. Two korean martial arts that are closely related (two styles of TKD, for example) will have much in common and much of the skills will transfer. But to assume it all will is not a valid assumption. An example. I've studied four styles of TKD now. I know two ways to form a front stance, three ways to form a back stance, and four ways to form the prep-movement for a double middle knife-hand block, etc. All are "correct" within their systems, all have valid rationales for why they are they way they are, and all are useful in the appropriate context/situation. This is detail I would've missed if I'd just assumed the higher rank and does nothing but strengthen my art. In addition, while this sort of detail may not be all that important in the grand scheme of things, the differences can be very confusing for other students when they see two black belts doing the same technique in different ways. So out of respect for the instructors and consideration of my fellow students, I'd rather start over and learn things "correctly" so that their system remains clear and intact. The assumption, "The rationale for starting from white belt is only for money," is totally incorrect in every instance that I've started over. Sometimes I've been invited to wear my previous rank in class. Sometimes I've been offered tuition-free classes in consideration of my previous training. Sometimes I've been asked to teach in exchange for my tuition. Sometimes I've been offered an "exchange of information": I get free lessons in exchange for teaching the instructors my other forms (or whatever). Sometimes I've been jump-promoted through the lower-ranking belt levels. Sometimes I've had my testing fees waived. Often some combination of the above. In most cases (The first time I started at a new school I was a little more full of myself than I am now...And, to be honest, every once in a while that ego still tries to reassert itself. I don't claim to be perfect...), I tell the new instructor my preference: to start over as a white belt, let them promote me as they see fit, and to hold off on teaching their students until they are comfortable with my knowledge of their system. As far as paying for the classes go, I'll take the free classes if they are offered, but I have no problem paying a reasonable price for good martial arts instruction. In all cases, this attitude has lead to far more respect/friendship from other martial artists -- students and instructors -- and a better experience in the new system than the attitude that I deserve to wear my black belt at a new school. Jeremy Anderson. --- sidtkd@aol.com wrote: > Jeremy, > > > I certainly respect your dedication in starting over 9 times! But > if I > were in a Bachelor of Arts program in one school and transferred to > another, > I know much would transfer with me. In two similar Korean arts, it > would be > ridiculous to start from scratch. Now if I were in Judo and switched to > > Kempo...THAT is a totally different story. The rationale for starting > from white > belt is only for money. > > Sid > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:21:44 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] White man martial arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net oops. Did not mean to give the impression that the web site I mentioned was "mine". Just a good source of info on european martial arts. Thanks --__--__-- Message: 16 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 15:56:24 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukiwon Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Doesn't the Kukiwon still require a couple of pass port photos with the application? If so, there's a cost there too. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 17 From: "J.R. West" To: Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 16:04:49 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Combat cane...again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to remind those that have purchased a "combat cane" or anything else that is marketed and sold with the idea that it might be used a weapon (hence the name "combat"), you are opening up a serious can of worms should you ever have to actually use it and defend yourself later in a court of law. Just go get yourself a regular oak or hickory cane at any med supply store and carry it, that way you'll never have to explain why you are carrying "that" cane....J. R. West www.hapkido.com ----- Original Message ----- --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest