Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:34:20 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #103 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Black belt retention (Gordon) 2. Re: Black belt retention (Thomas Gordon) 3. Re: Black belt retention (Martin Von Cannon) 4. video clip: mma (Jye nigma) 5. RE: Black belt retention (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 6. Kushanku/Kong San Kun (Joseph Cheavens) 7. Thought Question (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Thought Question (Thomas Gordon) 9. RE: Thought Question (Joseph Cheavens) 10. A Poser for the Masters (Gordon) 11. Thought Question (Gordon) 12. RE: Kushanku/Kong San Kun (Rick Clark) 13. junsado (Jye nigma) 14. SEMINAR - NKMAA (Fred Gommels) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 09:19:08 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Black belt retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings, Despite our instruction to the opposite, many of our students believe black belt is an end, not a beginning. They have in mind that once they reach black belt here, they will go to another style and get another black belt, thereby building their resume. Subsequently, we tend to lose about 50% of our 1st Dans within a year of receiving their rank. Granted, the good ones are the ones that stay and so, our higher black belts are fantastic motivators and leaders. We are considering adding to our curriculum at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Dan. What do you do to retain black belts in your schools? Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 10:53:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black belt retention From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Okerstrom, In our school, we use levels of material, midterms, and goal setting to help with retention. For example, as a first degree, they’ll do a midterm in six months with their new form. If successful, they start to work on another form and do their second midterm in six more months. If successful at that point, they’ll start preparation for examination for second degree after a minimum of 18 active months of training with very few people ever testing "on time." It almost takes an instructor to be as active as they need to be and active time doesn’t necessarily mean they’re ready. A few points here, for one, midterms are without charge. It’s a retention tool not a profit center. With that said, to each their own. I think it's great if you can make a decent living teaching martial arts without competing with the oldest profession. Secondly, I’ve heard martial artists in various arts (such as Judo, Hapkido, Ju-Jitsu) be critical of forms work. To my reply, "write down your #1 joint lock or throw." Even a simple wrist lock or hip toss has 4-6 "steps." I’d call that a short form. We teach the steps of the form and then work towards application as read in General Choi’s encyclopedias. Then we use creative application although it’s never referred to as the "secret" or "hidden" meanings/techniques. I avoid the hooky stuff. In regards to Taekwondo, there may be several alternatives movements using hard and soft style applications. Hope that helps. Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 09:10:20 -0800 From: Martin Von Cannon To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Black belt retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Quoting Gordon : > Greetings, > > Despite our instruction to the opposite, many of our students believe black > belt is an end, not a beginning. They have in mind that once they reach > black belt here, they will go to another style and get another black belt, > thereby building their resume. Subsequently, we tend to lose about 50% of > our 1st Dans within a year of receiving their rank. Granted, the good ones > are the ones that stay and so, our higher black belts are fantastic > motivators and leaders. We are considering adding to our curriculum at 1st, > 2nd, and 3rd Dan. What do you do to retain black belts in your schools? > > Gordon Okerstrom > We do exactly what you suggest. We also do not use black belt as the ultimate goal. We let the students know that it is a goal, but not the end goal. As for our curriculum we have Black Belt only classes that cover more advanced techniques, instructor training, along with other aspects. - Martin E. Von Cannon Tacoma Dojang Instructor mvoncannon@akdwa.org http://www.akdwa.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 11:39:41 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: mma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.youtube.com/p.swf?video_id=wV75nGYIMCE&eurl=http%3A//forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D362080&iurl=http%3A//static13.youtube.com/get_still.php%3Fvideo_id%3DwV75nGYIMCE --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Black belt retention Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 13:46:53 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From a TKD perspective, I've tried to add a lot the Dan curriculum. One could argue that from 1st to 2nd Dan you traditionally learn 3 new forms and people generally expect you to be better and more exact in your technique. My untested opinion is that people simply get bored, which seems to be supported your data that the students explore other styles etc... I've done to combat this is to add lots of stuff to the Dan Curriculum. We introduce Jang Bong to 1st Dan's and have a complete Jang Bong Curriculum. As well as concentrate more on Ho Sin Sool and joint locking, trying to add in some the principles and techniques we've picked up from our Hapkido interactions and seminars. These are purely, my personal thoughts as our school is young and only has 2 1st Dans out of 50 students or so. Jason -----Original Message----- From: Gordon [mailto:gordon@baes.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 9:19 AM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Black belt retention Greetings, Despite our instruction to the opposite, many of our students believe black belt is an end, not a beginning. They have in mind that once they reach black belt here, they will go to another style and get another black belt, thereby building their resume. Subsequently, we tend to lose about 50% of our 1st Dans within a year of receiving their rank. Granted, the good ones are the ones that stay and so, our higher black belts are fantastic motivators and leaders. We are considering adding to our curriculum at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Dan. What do you do to retain black belts in your schools? Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:02:35 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kushanku/Kong San Kun Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How many of you learn/teach Kushanku/Kong San Kun? If you do, what Kwan are you affiliated with? If so, do what degree does if vary from the original Karate version of the form Kusanku/Kanku Dai (which of course in turn varies depending on the Karate style)? Any Ji Do Kwan practitioners that do this form, does your version have a low knife hand strike in the beginnig section after the knife hand blocks, and a jump turning crescent in the middle section?  Joe Cheavens Austin, TX --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:10:01 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Thought Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For all those who study TKD (and those who like to watch), what would you like to see more of, or evolve in TKD? For me, I'd like to see the combination of movements with kicks included. For instance, rolling techniques with kicks. I personally would like to see TKD with much more kicking intensive applications/techniques. Jye --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:52:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Thought Question From: "Thomas Gordon" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net At one time, I would have liked to see TKD have more joint locks and weapons. But now, as I get more and more settled into it, I’m really not interested in "my TKD" looking like everyone else’s MMA. Sounds like Circle K to me. To me, I’d like to see TKD people work more on striking skills. I’ve been working on other arts to complement TKD and I think all instructors should offer a taste of more than their core art. However, there is nothing like watching a skilled hard stylist showing "how it’s done" on self defense. About 10-12 years ago I was judging an international self defense competition broken down by hard or soft style. There was one young man who did a gorgeous jumping 270 outer crescent kick that was absolutely phenomenal and missed the attackers face by maybe an inch (his hair parted from the wind) and finished it up with a huge double leg sweep. On the later techniques he did kicks that simply weren’t possible. I walked away going "wow." With that said, I’m not real interested in watching a Judo player show off his kicks....show me some air time on the next fella ya throw! Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Thought Question Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:31:10 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to see TKD either move away from its emphasis on Olympic style sparring or change those rules to make it both more interesting for non-TKD people to watch and to be more practical in terms of self defense. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Jye nigma Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  [The_Dojang] Thought Question Date:  Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:10:01 -0800 (PST) >For all those who study TKD (and those who like to watch), what would you like to see more of, or evolve in TKD? > >   For me, I'd like to see the combination of movements with kicks included. For instance, rolling techniques with kicks. I personally would like to see TKD with much more kicking intensive applications/techniques. > >   Jye > > > >--------------------------------- >Yahoo! Mail >Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:47:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] A Poser for the Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know this will spark dissent from the traditionalists and disdain from street realists, but with regard to the acrobatics that have been introduced into martial arts competitions in the last few years; the 540 degree and 720 degree aerial spin kicks, back flips and striking landings, do you think that you could have done these when you were in your youth? Remember, Spandex, The Total Gym and Walker Texas Ranger hadn't been invented yet. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 15:53:28 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thought Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joseph wrote: to be more practical in terms of self defense.> HOO-HAH! Dude! I am so with you on that! Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 17:09:26 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kushanku/Kong San Kun To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Joe, >From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] >How many of you learn/teach Kushanku/Kong San Kun? If you do, >what Kwan are you affiliated with? If so, do what degree does >if vary from the original Karate version of the form >Kusanku/Kanku Dai (which of course in turn varies depending on >the Karate style)? I was in Chung Do Kwan, what I was taught was Shotokan kata with a Korean flair. So the movements in all of the forms were very similar to the Shotokan versions. I have joked with Shotokan folks that what I did was a system closer to what Funakoshi taught than what they teach and practice. Won Kuk Lee started Chung Do Kwan in 1945 and this would have been pre-JKA where the modern Shotokan forms were changed a bit to meet the needs of the time. So what Lee brought back to Korea would have been closer to what Funakoshi taught. This has been a way for me to jab at TKD folks who are down on the Japanese and the Japanese who are down on TKD. Neither side likes that they are tied to each other :-) >Austin, TX Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 14:19:23 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] junsado Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Do we have any Junsado practitioners on the list? Jye --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Fred Gommels" To: "DOJANG DIGEST" Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 18:25:44 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] SEMINAR - NKMAA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. 2849 S. Broadway Rochester, MN 55904 USA 507-281-4335 www.mafci.com SEMINAR Conducted by: GrandMaster Rudy Timmerman National Korean Martial Arts Association Saturday, April 1 10:00 am-5:00 pm TRAINING IN: KOREAN MARTIAL ARTS: Kong Shin Bup - Hapkido – Kuk Sool KI Training, Weapons Training, Joint-locking, Pressure Points, Traditional Forms, and a myriad of awesome Self-Defense techniques. FOR DETAILS VISIT: http://www.mafci.com/events/timmerman-seminar.shtml Fredrick J. Gommels Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. Korea / USA Simmudo Association 2849 S. Broadway Rochester MN 55904 www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest