Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 15:29:21 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #106 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: article. cardinal rules of combat (Jye nigma) (Benjamin Nall) 2. RE: Comment on Black Belt Retention (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 3. Re: Retention or short term success (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. Kong Sang Koon Practice (Dunn, Danny J GARRISON) 5. Black Belt Retention (Bruce Sims) 6. RE: Re: Retention or short term success (Rick Clark) 7. Re: Re: Retention or short term success (Ray) 8. RE: BB Retention (J R Hilland) 9. hands up! (Ray) 10. Re: Knife (Beungood8@aol.com) 11. RE: hands up! (Joseph Cheavens) 12. Have any of you recieved one of these emails (Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com) 13. Re: Have any of you recieved one of these emails (Ray) 14. Re: Have any of you recieved one of these emails (Alida) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Benjamin Nall Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:56:56 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: article. cardinal rules of combat (Jye nigma) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I thought that was a good article, but I wasn't really surprised that it was by Sang H. Kim. I have developed a lot of respect for him which all started from buying this DVD on the first 8 Tae Guk forms for TKD, which was very simple, and nicely produced. BongSoo --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Comment on Black Belt Retention Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:10:09 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, I would respectfully disagree: (of course these are all my personal opinions). -----Original Message----- From: Dan Scholten [mailto:masterdan@gci.net] >you weed these people out by Green belt or sooner. This is the age old quandary for many martial artists. Everyone wants to teach, everyone wants to have students. Then we construct a strategy of driving them way. How exactly are we helping them by driving them away or only teaching the ones that we deem worthy? >I am so fed up with people saying they are bored with kicks or blocks or >this and that. We should encourage our students to communicate with us and help over come these feeling of boredom and help recognize the need for repetition. >I understand that for many MA is an income but it still must be run >traditionally and in the end will be more profitable with retention because >you will have better committed students/converts to help you grow your family. This is really a quantity versus quality argument. I strive for both. >Regarding retention: Things only have meaning related to what you pay >for them, if you pay little it will have little meaning but if it cost you >dearly then it will mean much, unfortunately this has been used as a basis >for charging money and is not entirely the point. I believe this to be true. >I remember in 1972 when starting the journey for 1st Dan it took five years >and the last six months was so hard you had to quit work for the last six >months and train full time 8 hours six days a week. I lived through those days, unfortunately now it's 2006 and times and standards have changed. Students are generally not up for trial by fire experience that many people went through. Generally, I see two choices.... Teach a higher volume of people and try to move them along, aligning their needs with quality teaching. Or decide what you want to push out into the market and understand you may have a smaller student base. Neither is necessarily bad, just a choice. Respectfully, Jason --__--__-- Message: 3 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:47:41 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Retention or short term success Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Dan makes a point that I personally share. I certainly have felt and will always feel, that for me martial arts is a lifelong pursuit. Jigoro Kano wrote that if he lived twenty more years he would perfect the forward punch! However, I also believe this is not everyones goal. Some folks use martial arts for weight loss or for aerobic training or just simply don't want to go further. My opinion is that this is fine. If you take tae bo or kwando which are tae kwondo excercise spin-offs that is wonderful. After all, really there are only 235 ninth dans in taekwondo in the world and only one is an America (WTF). I guess that means that out of the 4.5 million black belts world-wide only a tiny amount go to the highest place. Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:16:24 -0600 From: "Dunn, Danny J GARRISON" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Kong Sang Koon Practice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joe, There are a number of Tang Soo Do ko dan ja here including myself who are of Moo Duk Kwan lineage and all practice Kong Sang Koon. Our form is closely related to Funakoshi's version with more kicks like Rick's version. There is some variation among Tang Soo Do practitioners on the form, but it tends to be rather minor. I do not do a low level knife hand, but one to the neck. The only jumping kick in my hyung is front kick. Danny Dunn <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 07:52:03 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Black Belt Retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ".... We are considering adding to our curriculum at 1st,2nd, and 3rd Dan. What do you do to retain black belts in your schools?..." Sorry, Gordon, but I think you have inadvertantly answered your own question. The solution to your problem lies in the origin of the problem itself-- which is to say your attitude regarding the nature of KMA. It makes no sense to organize your curriculum in sucha way as to "culminate" at Cho-dan and then wonder why students see themselves as having "completed" the program when they make that rank. What did you expect? I have students who leave because they see the "path" of Hapkido arts as "interminable". These are the folks who constantly want to know "how much longer" to reach a particular point. My standard response is usually something like "why, you have a date?". If you are feeling brave, I suggest you look at yourself and your curriculum and honestly ask yourself why anyone would want to stay with you past Cho-dan? Remember, this is the turning point at which the student is making a true commitment to a particular art as his path. What do you have to offer? Have you continued to grow on your own so that you HAVE something more to offer? I know these are hard questions to face and to answer and I have no doubt that you will be encouraged to "ignore the man behind the curtain". All the same you seem to be a man with a problem. All I would encourage you to consider is that you are also the man holding the solution. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 11:08:02 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Retention or short term success To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From: sidtkd@aol.com [mailto:sidtkd@aol.com] Jigoro Kano wrote that if he lived twenty more years he would perfect the forward punch! The founder of Judo said this? >Sid Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Retention or short term success To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 08:23:39 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >From: sidtkd@aol.com [mailto:sidtkd@aol.com] > Jigoro Kano wrote that if he lived twenty more years he would > perfect the forward punch! > > The founder of Judo said this? Not too likely. Dr. Kano might have said something like this wrt Osoto Gari, but surely not about a front punch. I suspect Sid meant to say Funakoshi Sensei. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 11:45:37 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: BB Retention Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris: As a 6th dan with 32 years experience, I am still learning new techniques. It never stops. Yes, it is important to me to pass along the complete art to anyone willing to learn it. But, experience has shown me that a good teacher is a student first and foremost. Jere R. Hilland, Fargo, ND www.HapkidoSelfDefense.com <<>> --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] hands up! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Keep your hands up or else this might happen to you... :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubciiYeiBCs&search=tornado%20kick Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Beungood8@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 16:51:24 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Knife Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/2/2006 9:41:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Combat's Cardinal Rule by Hanho Sang H. Kim Many years have passed since I survived dozens of missions as a special agent while serving in the Korean military. Many missions involved combat, both with weapons and with fists. A few members of my elite 202 unit survived, many never made it. Looking back, I find something valuable for my friends who couldn't make it at the time. In the Academy for Special Agents at Jeong-Neung, Korea, my combat instructor T.K. Kim used to scream at us during the grueling knife-fighting training sessions, "Do not run away from your opponent, get closer to him! Dissolve the knife in your head!" I remember that most of my comrades who tried to run away from their enemies got killed. Those who got injured by choosing to stay closer, by following T.K. Kim's instruction, survived. The cardinal rule of combat, whether against a knife or an empty-handed adversary is "Stay close to your opponent!" Especially when your opponent is armed with a knife, there is often no way out but to stay close and fight. The keys for surviving in close quarters combat against a knife are: First, read the intent of your enemy. In combat, the enemy has only one motive, to eliminate you and obtain his objective. This often made the first assessment for me simple - there was not option to escape or placate my attackers. In civilian life, however, you must read your attackers intentions. Assess what he wants from you: your money, your car, your pride, your honor, your life - assailants have many motives for attacking their Did that guy ever hear of Pekiti-Tirsia Kali? While he doing all that reading he'll be getting stabbed to death! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] hands up! Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 16:36:30 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Very cool. This is a fine illustration of one of my pet peaves - students who drop their hands. I think its one of the big downsides of not allowing punches to the head. And no for something completely different: http://media.putfile.com/taek >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: [The_Dojang] hands up! >Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:00:27 -0800 (PST) > >Keep your hands up or else this might happen to you... :) > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubciiYeiBCs&search=tornado%20kick > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 17:39:23 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Have any of you recieved one of these emails Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was wondering if any one besides my instructor and me got this ? it doesnt sound right to me. Kurtis Carter Hello Master, I am Mr Christopher Williams. I have a kid of 14 years that is coming over to USA shortly and I want him to use that oppotunity to learn Martial Art in your Dojang. I discovered you from a very reliable martial Art Directory. He will be in the state for 4 months and I want him to learn for the whole 4 months. There is arrangement already for his accommodation. the boy is a beginner and his name is Kelvin. The payment will be made to you by my business associate in USA and It will be inform of money order or a cashier check. Now, kindly get back to me with the cost for the 4 months lesson and the cost for the badgi and sadgi and the other needed equipments. I will also like to have the complete contact details for the sake of the payment. Chris. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Have any of you recieved one of these emails To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:11:07 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was wondering if any one besides my instructor and me got this ? it doesnt > sound right to me. Yes, I have received and deleted it several times. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 18:16:32 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Alida" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Have any of you recieved one of these emails Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (poking my head in before going back to lurk) Mr. Christopher Williams has been from Cuba, the UK and Nigeria and has asked for piano lessons, rental properties and the like. It's a scam. Alida -------Original Message------- From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: 03/02/06 18:09:44 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Have any of you recieved one of these emails I was wondering if any one besides my instructor and me got this ? it doesnt sound right to me. Kurtis Carter Hello Master, I am Mr Christopher Williams. I have a kid of 14 years that is coming over to USA shortly and I want him to use that oppotunity to learn Martial Art in your Dojang. I discovered you from a very reliable martial Art Directory. He will be in the state for 4 months and I want him to learn for the whole 4 months. There is arrangement already for his accommodation. the boy is a beginner and his name is Kelvin. The payment will be made to you by my business associate in USA and It will be inform of money order or a cashier check. Now, kindly get back to me with the cost for the 4 months lesson and the cost for the badgi and sadgi and the other needed equipments. I will also like to have the complete contact details for the sake of the payment. Chris. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.1/272 - Release Date: 3/1/2006 --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest