Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 15:02:26 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #119 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. re: women's self-defense (Wes Heaps) 2. Self-Defense (Bruce Sims) 3. BSA Youth Protection Training - additional information (Lasich, Mark D.) 4. USAT National Qual (Ray Terry) 5. RE: Self-Defense (Rick Clark) 6. GM West DVD (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 7. Multi arts at one time (Gladewater SooBahkDo) 8. RE: Multi arts at one time (Rick Clark) 9. Re: Multi arts at one time (Ray) 10. USAT Unveils Details of High Level Training Center Program (Ray Terry) 11. self-defense end table (Ray Terry) 12. Re: Self-Defense (jakskru) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 21:48:30 -0800 (PST) From: Wes Heaps To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] re: women's self-defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I dont know about everyone else's art,ive only taken one style of MA, but mine is geared so that no matter what size or strength the attacker is, the person defending is always at a advantage. I often joke with my master, that i wish i was smaller and weaker so i could demostrate the techniques instead of having to be the attacker all the time. "women ALWAYS win and the sonner you relize this the better you'll be." he always says jokingly to me(considering his wife is also a master) i don't doubt him. but that is only my view. You can agree or disagree thats your right. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 05:16:06 -0800 (PST) From: Bruce Sims To: Ray Terry Subject: [The_Dojang] Self-Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "....To toss one last opinion in: I always find it interesting that some believe that we can not separate two or three different arts if they are practiced at the same time. People study different topics all the time, kids play baseball AND football in the same day, people ride English and Western saddle all the time. Why is it that people think that you can not study more than one martial art at the same time? Heck they did that in the old days all the time (pre modern martial arts). People would practice sword arts, archery, weapons, hand to hand to become a well rounded warrior of the era. Why is it that we are different today? Personally I suspect there are reasons that are not associated with the actual study, but rather the political, economic, and issues an instructor might have....." Dear Rick: The problem comes in with your choice of words. You titled your post "self-defense" but went on to ask about "two or three different arts". Not the same thing. Now certainly people can debate about when a skill set such as painting crosses over from a mechanical activity into an artform. For the purposes of my response all I want to point out is that it is not the same to speak in terms of a physical skill and an artform as though they are the same thing. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:28:17 -0500 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "Dojang \(Dojang\)" Subject: [The_Dojang] BSA Youth Protection Training - additional information Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To complete the BSA Youth Protection Training discussion: The following link is to a DVD on Youth Protection that BSA puts out. We viewed this for our Leader's training at this month's Rountable, and, I believe, is really well done. It is $19.95 directly from BSA. https://scoutnet.scouting.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?ctlg=05NDC&ctgy= PRODUCTS&c2=AUDIO_VIDEO&C3=AV_LEADERS&C4=&LV=3&item=AV-09DVD01 So, you have two options with your instructors: 1) Purchase the above video, call them all together, have them watch the video and engage in the discussion sections every year or so 2) Have each instructor go through the on-line training: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/ypt/ypt.jsp I don't mean to beat this horse to death, but I feel strongly about ensuring everyone in a leadership position with kids should take advantage of this training.....My Scout friends get tired of hearing me talk about it too! The ATA requires all instructors remain current with CPR training. It makes sense to me to couple Youth Protection Training with whatever training requirements your organization may have. In the spirit, Mark --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:54:15 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT National Qual Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net NATIONAL QUALIFIER #6 May 27-28, 2006 PHARMED ARENA MIAMI, FLORIDA Sanctioned, Promoted and Organized By: USA Taekwondo Competition Venue: Pharmed Arena Florida International University Miami, FL 33199 www.fiu.edu/docs/virtual_tour/pop-gold-arena.htm 1-305-348-2756 Competition Rules: USAT and Modified WTF Competition Rules --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:04:59 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Self-Defense To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, >From: Bruce Sims [mailto:bsims@midwesthapkido.com] >"....To toss one last opinion in: I always find it interesting >that some believe that we can not separate two or three >different arts if they are practiced at the same time. People >study different topics all the time, kids play baseball AND >football in the same day, people ride English and Western >saddle all the time. Why is it that people think that you can >not study more than one martial art at the same time? Heck >they did that in the old days all the time (pre modern martial >arts). People would practice sword arts, archery, weapons, >hand to hand to become a well rounded warrior of the era. Why >is it that we are different today? Personally I suspect there >are reasons that are not associated with the actual study, but >rather the political, economic, and issues an instructor might >have....." > > Dear Rick: > > The problem comes in with your choice of words. You titled your post "self-defense" but went on to ask about "two or >three different arts". Not quite, my post was in response to the post and I did not change the subject line. As I recall the post was directed at learning self defense and that the original post was about taking two different martial arts Hapkido and Ninjitsu at the same time. There were some responses to posts that it was not such a great idea to study more than one martial art at the same time. Thus my response. > Not the same thing. Now certainly people can debate about when a skill set such as painting >crosses over from a mechanical activity into an art form. Just to toss in an idea here, you must learn the mechanics of an art before you can take it to being art. My son played the cello, he had to learn the mechanics of the instrument but he has not taken it to being an artist such as Yo Yo Ma. At the same time he was playing the cello he also played the French Horn. Very different instruments, different scale, and different fingering. But I am sure he never confused the two instruments when he played. >For the purposes of my response all I want to point out is that it >is not the same to speak in terms of a physical skill and an art form as though they are the same thing. FWIW. Just out of curiosity, when do you feel a person in the martial arts passes beyond performing the techniques (mechanical skill) and passes on to practicing an art? Thinking in terms of music there are not many like Yo Yo Ma, or a Pavarotti, Carreras, Zubin Mehta, or even Paul McCarthy. I suspect most of us are technicians rather than artists. > > Best Wishes, > > Bruce Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:50:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM West DVD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you have purchased or viewed GM West's Seminar DVD, please consider going to Amazon and rating the current review and adding your own review. The link is: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AYN5WQ/qid=1142005583/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_ 11/002-3106554-2860829?s=dvd &v=glance&n=130 Thanks, Jason --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" To: "the_dojang" Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:26:37 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Multi arts at one time Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a great topic I train and teach the art of Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. I have trained in Kung Fu, and TKD. I also cross train in Jujitsu. This is what I have learned through experiance. To train in two or more arts is not good if they are being learned at the same time. When you train hard with sincere intent, you creat muscle memory, and reactionary skill. Some arts are just not compatable. For example when I changed to Soo Bahk Do from TKD the motions were not the same, so simple sparing was dificult because I had to unlearn so habits, before I could learn the new ones. If you asked me to demonstrate a kick from the old TKD days I could do that, but in the fast action I would react with Soo Bahk Do movements not TKD. I cross train in Jujitsu becasue Soo Bahk Do does not offer much in the way of Grappling, or Wrestling skill. They two arts do not conflict each other. IMHO one should chose one art and learn it to at least 3rd or 4th dan before making a serious effort to crosss train. I teach a Jujitsu Class, and I have people come in that only want to learn grappling, I turn them away. I only teach Jujitsu to my senior students in Soo Bahk Do, becasue they have demonstated a discipline, and respect for me as an instructor, and I have developed a relationship , and trust in them. They have a good foundation in which to build on, and a understanding about body physics. These people that just want to learn submissions, rarely want to learn jujitsu, they just want to learn what they have seen on the UFC. They have no experiance, or discipline. These people that learn and teach 5, 6, or 7 styles and claim to be ranked in all if them ussually are jacks of all trades, and masters of none. Just my 2 cents JCGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:27:01 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Multi arts at one time To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, >From: Gladewater SooBahkDo [mailto:gladewatersoobahkdo@msn.com] > >This is a great topic I agree it is a great topic, one that has always held my interest. > >I train and teach the art of Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan. I have >trained in Kung Fu, and TKD. I also cross train in Jujitsu. >This is what I have learned through experiance. > >To train in two or more arts is not good if they are being learned at the same time. When you train hard with sincere >intent, you creat muscle memory, and reactionary skill. Some arts are just not compatable. For example when I changed to >Soo Bahk Do from TKD the motions were not the same, so simple sparing was dificult because I had to unlearn so habits, >before I could learn the new ones. If you asked me to demonstrate a kick from the old TKD days I could do that, but >in the fast action I would react with Soo Bahk Do movements not TKD. I cross train in Jujitsu becasue Soo Bahk Do does not >offer much in the way of Grappling, or Wrestling skill. They two arts do not conflict each other. So - if I understand you correctly you would not see an overlap in training in Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Arnis, Tai Chi Chuan, and Kendo (Kumdo)? But there is an overlap. Judo does teach kick and punches (Kano added them into his art after meeting Funakoshi), there are wrist locks and arm bar techniques as found in other styles of Jujitsu. Tae Kwon Do does have thaws, locks, and defensive techniques against a club. There is an overlap there with Arnis that will have similar techniques. Modern Arnis, as taught by the late Remy Presas does have empty hand forms that look similar to Karate / Tae Kwon Do forms. And Tai Chi Chuan does have empty hand techniques that if done fast look very similar to the movements in Tae Kwon Do and Karate. Not to mention that Tai Chi Chuan does have sword forms, wait a minute Kendo (Kumdo) uses swords . . . . . . > >IMHO one should chose one art and learn it to at least 3rd or 4th dan before making a serious effort to crosss train. Personally I don't have a problem with someone training in various arts from white belt forward. It's a matter of time and commitment in my opinion . . . . > >I teach a Jujitsu Class, and I have people come in that only want to learn grappling, I turn them away. I only teach >Jujitsu to my senior students in Soo Bahk Do, becasue they have demonstated a discipline, and respect for me as an >instructor, and I have developed a relationship , and trust in them. They have a good foundation in which to build on, and a >understanding about body physics. These people that just want to learn submissions, rarely want to learn jujitsu, they just >want to learn what they have seen on the UFC. They have no experiance, or discipline. It seems to me one of the things a martial arts instructor is to teach is experience and discipline. If they have that already why are they coming to us? I remember being in some classes at University when the Prof. told us to ask questions - I was so lost I did not know enough to ask a question. I think when a person comes into your school, most of the time they don't know enough about the martial arts to ask a question, we have to teach them enough so that they can ask an intelligent question. > >These people that learn and teach 5, 6, or 7 styles and claim to be ranked in all if them usually are jacks of all trades, >and masters of none. When I taught at in the PE Department of Indiana State University I would teach various classes in one day, Judo, Ju-jitsu, Arnis, and Karate. Then that night I would teach a class away from the University in Tae Kwon Do. I had students that would take two or three of the classes at the same time and they did quite well, and were able to distinguish between one class (art) and another. >Just my 2 cents Not to be a real smart a** but I think Cents (money) is where a lot of the objections come into this type of discussion. Instructors compete for students we all know this. Just look at the local schools you may have. Do most of the schools have a good relationship with each other, do you see cooperation between schools and instructors? I doubt you will see much. All the time I hear one school run down the others, not legitimate, not traditional, not the real stuff, they teach kid stuff, we teach the good stuff, that guy is a fraud, his rank is from XYZ not from ZYX the best (who I just happen to be affiliated with) - all kinds of trash talk. Why? The root problem, at least in my opinion, for all of the problems in the martial arts is money. Lord - I can see myself going into my rant mode here - so I better shut up Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Multi arts at one time To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:42:55 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To train in two or more arts is not good if they are being learned at the same > time. When you train hard with sincere intent, you creat muscle memory, and > reactionary skill. I agree... IMHO, training in Shotokan and Taekwondo at the same time would be confusing. Training in Aikido and Hapkido at the same time would be confusing. But training in Aikido and Shotokan would not be all that confusing. Or people could just train in Hapkido and forget about the rest... :) Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:07:54 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] USAT Unveils Details of High Level Training Center Program Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net USAT Unveils Details of High Level Training Center Program March 10, 2006 Last year, in its continued efforts to maximize athletic development and improve the number of athletes that will reach their dreams of Olympic glory, USA Taekwondo entered into an exclusive agreement with Gold Medal Systems to operate high level training centers for the sport of Taekwondo nationwide. This groundbreaking project will partner USA Taekwondo's best coaches with regional high level training centers that will provide training and programs for athletes, coaches and referees. For the first time in the history of the sport, every USA Taekwondo athlete in the country will have access to high level training facilities and access to state of the art educational materials. USA Gold Medal Training Centers will undertake the responsibility to operate at least six high level training centers for the benefit of USA Taekwondo Inc. and its membership. These centers will provide exclusive programming for the three pillars of membership that deliver sustained competitive excellence: athletes, coaches and referees. The high level training centers will deliver grass-root development programming, elite athlete training, coaching certification and referee certification at all levels. USA Gold Medal Training Centers will achieve these goals utilizing the following: Daily classes for local athletes and students Daily training sessions for all levels of developmental athletes Weekly training session for designated athletes and coaches Monthly seminars for regional athletes and coaches Quarterly seminars for referees and coaches Summer and winter camps for all regional members Continual membership drives at the introductory level The venture is headed by a team of past Olympians and world championship-level athletes who share a vision and passion for the sport. This team is committed to providing top-shelf education and training methods to all members of USA Taekwondo and will be led by 1992 Olympic gold medalist Herb Perez. Perez, a 7th degree black belt, has built an extensive resume in the Olympic Family and in the martial arts business world. He has served on the United States Olympic Committee's Executive Committee, Board of Directors and currently heads the Olympic Council of Asia International Projects division. Perez has designed products and built markets for the three largest martial arts companies in the world. Since his retirement from active competition, Perez has designed martial arts training curriculum for many styles including Taekwondo. Most recently, Perez rejoined forces with Century Inc. to roll out the Torch Program, the first complete training curriculum for Olympic Taekwondo. Launched at the Martial Arts Industry Association's Supershow in Las Vegas, the program was received with great enthusiasm. The Torch Program will provide instruction with complete educational and training materials for athletes of all levels. This curriculum will be available at the high level training centers and to all registered USA Taekwondo members and instructors. The high level training centers will be operational by January 2007, and USA Taekwondo together with Gold Medal Training Systems is in the final stages of determining the first six coaches for the centers. Anyone interested in becoming a part of the high level training centers can apply online at http://www.highleveltraining.com/ List of 2006 Seminars Associate Coach Seminar National Qualifier April 1-2 Rochester, MN Asscoiate Coach Seminar National Qualifier April 8-9 Portland, OR Associate Coach Seminar National Qualifier April 22-23 Anaheim, CA Associate Coach Seminar National Qualifier May 13-14 Dallas, TX Associate Coach Seminar National Qualifier May 20-21 Buffalo, NY Associate Coach Seminar National Qualifier May 27-28 Miami, FL Associate Coach Seminar Junior Olympics TBA Atlanta, GA Level I – Introducing Sport Taekwondo Junior Olympics July 4-5 Atlanta, GA Associate Coach Seminar Senior Nationals TBA TBA Level I – Introducing Sport Taekwondo Senior Nationals TBA TBA --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 14:52:23 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] self-defense end table Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Every home needs at least one... http://www.jamesmcadam.co.uk/portfolio_html/sb_table.html --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Self-Defense Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 17:52:36 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Just out of curiosity, when do you feel a person in the martial arts > passes beyond performing the techniques (mechanical skill) and passes on > to practicing an art? Thinking in terms of music there are not many > like Yo Yo Ma, or a Pavarotti, Carreras, Zubin Mehta, or even Paul > McCarthy. I suspect most of us are technicians rather than artists. > well, from my perspective, i can tell you that i have had technique done to me by several high ranking masters...i can easily feel the difference as soon as they touch me from, say a gup level student, or even a first dan...there is more grace and you can feel the power and ability...as for exactly when this happened it is my opinion that it "happens" ( the change from mechanical to art) when that individual "gets it", so to speak...when they see the big picture and not the storyboard fragments that everyone else is looking at during training. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest