Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 11:06:20 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #124 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: My last word or Multi art Training (Rick Clark) 2. Master Dan Installment #2 Grant Writing for TKD and MA (Dan Scholten) 3. rough landing (freddie bishop) 4. I love volcanoes but hate lava (sidtkd@aol.com) 5. Reply to Dan (Frank Clay) 6. Joseph C (Frank Clay) 7. RE: rough landing (Rick Clark) 8. Rick Clark on history (Johnjfitzg@aol.com) 9. WTF President Attends Taekwondo Tourney (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 01:01:52 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] My last word or Multi art Training To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Cox, >From: Gladewater SooBahkDo [mailto:gladewatersoobahkdo@msn.com] >Mr. Clark > >You are right, This is my opionin, based on my many years of training. In return-- your post is your opionin and believed by you and >those that know you. > >It is also my opinion that you may have confussed many people in 40 years I guess you are entitled to have an opinion even if that opinion is not based on first hand knowledge of what I teach, how I teach, or the understanding of the students I teach. >You said History and Tradition had no place in self-defense, but it is a part of teaching the complete art, Perhaps I missed something in my post but I don't recall saying History and Tradition have no place in self-defense. But I would not argue that when someone is attacking you history and tradition don't seem to have much of a place. And to be honest martial arts history and tradition is a bit suspect in most cases. I am rather careful in teaching "history" and "tradition" and they seem to be fluid and ever changing. > but this is obvious something you do not do. If you choose to teach a hodge-podge of information that is your right, This is a rather condescending statement and to be frank rude. But, if you seem to think that teaching a combination of various systems is simply someone making up a "hodge-podge" and confusing people. Let's look at something close to home for you. What system was founded on Nov 9th 1945? What system is said to be made up of Soo Bahk Ki, Tae Kyun, Northern and Southern Chinese gung fu, Taoist and Confucian philosophy? That seems to be a nice hodge-podge of information, now can you guess what system that describes? Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan http://www.soobahkdo.com/fed-web/art-history.htm Oh, while it's not on the web site, what forms were taught by Hwang Kee? Could it have been Pyung-Ahn and the rest of the Shotokan based forms? What about the founder of Soo Bahk Do? Was he an old man with 50 years of experience in the martial arts when he founded Soo Bahk Do? No, according to www.soobahkdo.com Hwang Kee first saw the martial arts at age 7 and at age 22 he was accepted as a master. That is a total of 15 years study, yet during that time "Grand Master Hwang Kee studied and researched every available source, and at the age of 22 he was recognized as a Master among other martial artists." So let's recap a bit - the founder of Soo Bahk Do starts the martial arts at age 7 (perhaps that age or older it does not say) and studies Korean, Chinese, and Japanese martial arts, combines what he as learned, adds in Taoist and Confucian philosophy and creates SBD. You now have an KMA that is 61 years old (founded Nov 9th 1945). Soo Bahk Do is 17 year older than the amount of time I have been practicing the martial arts. Oh yes lets not forget that www.soobahkdo.com says that Hwang Kee "researched every available source". To me that cross training, learning from others, and quite obviously other systems. So - it's OK for him to do this and be a jack of all but master of none? NO WAIT - the web site says that Hwang Kee "by the age of 22 was accepted as a master". So, you can cross train for no more than 15 years, 5 different martial arts, and at 22 be a master? Yet you tell me I am wrong in what I believe, that what I teach is a hodge-podge, and how your opinion is correct and mine is wrong? Excuse me - but if its good enough for the founder of your system the why should it not be good enough for others? I was at the martial arts for probably 30 years before I began wanting to combine the arts I had studied. Hwang Kee had been at it 15 year. So do you really want to throw stones about what and how I teach and that it's what you consider to be a hodge-podge of information. Hwang Kee, the founder of your system did the same thing I am doing. I am suggesting that cross training is valuable, and Hwang Kee thought the same because according to the history as given by Soo Bahk Do he cross trained and with culturally diverse systems. > but I believe that if a new student comes to you, and wants to learn TKD, or TSD, or Judo, or Jujitsu. You should teach them the complete >art, and only if you are legitamatley qualified. If you choose to teach them a mixed martial art, then they should be told. >They should not be told that they are learning 5 different arts because that is just a lie. I suppose you tell your students that they are learning mixed martial arts because they are learning elements of Soo Bahk Ki, Tae Kyun, Northern and Southern Chinese gung fu, Taoist and Confucian philosophy and Shotokan if you teach the Pyung-ahn forms. But even if you don't teach the Pyung-ahn forms all of the modern Korean forms can be traced back to this set of forms - thus Shotokan. If you don't tell them this are you telling them a lie? >I do however believe you can teach or cross train on techniques barrowed from other styles if the arts do not >conflict with each other phyically or in philosophy. For example I teach Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, and I teach Jujitsu. Well you are doing exactly what I suggest. You are teaching a technique from one style into another system. So once you take this step you are on a slippery slope. By logical extension you should be able to go back and study some Tae Kyun, Shotokan, Soo Bahk Ki, Northern and Southern Kung Fu. By learning these arts you should be able to understand the connections and foundations of your art better because that's the basis of your system. >I learned both arts from the bottom ranks by legitamate instructors, although I began my trainin in 1979. I did not >begin my Jujitsu until 1992. These two arts do not conflict with each other as they use the same concepts, and >philosophies. I trained in TKD in my earlier years, TKD and Soo Bahk Do do conflict in technique and in Philosophy. The >techniques do not use the same mechanics, and the Sport vs MA question is there to debate. To try and teach these to styles >to the same person at the same time would confuss them. And like Bruce posted about Muscle Memory would be difficult to >orginize in the persons mind. I have a hard time understanding how muscle memory and a cognitive aspect of a system can conflict, they are two very different things, at least in my opinion. Why is it that Hwang Kee was not confused as a youth when he studied so widely and searched all of the available arts available to him? If one person can do it why not others? >I will agree to disagree on this point about learning multi. arts because we have said all that needs to be said. It is >obvious you believe you are right. Probably because you teach multi arts, and you don't want to say you are wrong. Well I am glad to find someone who is not shy and is willing to tell me I am wrong. > That is again your opinion, and you know opinions are like buttholes we all have one and they all stink. You are correct we will have to agree to disagree. Interesting choice of words for a final comment. I wonder if you teach courtesy and respect to your students? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:37:15 -0900 From: Dan Scholten To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Dan Installment #2 Grant Writing for TKD and MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net GRANT WRITING FOR TKD AND MA INSTALLMENT #2 FROM MASTER DAN 1. BUILDING CREDIBILITY FOR FUNDING LETTERES OF REFERENCE: A. Teachers B. Health Care Professionals C. Program administrators D. Politicians E. Parents F. State, National or local endorsements You need to start a complete package of references to build an introduction to future funding sources to give them a reason to fund you. I currently have a package that was developed from 30 to over the last 10 years. I have letters from President George Bush Senior to my GM, letters to me personally about the programs I teach and recommending me for grants from past and present Governors, United States Senator of my state which is one of the most senior and powerful in the U.S. I have Health Care Professionals stating on official letterhead what my TKD training has done for their clients both with physical or mental requirements. References from program administrators related to how well you conduct programs on city or other official letterhead accounting for funds and success in meeting program goals. Collect letters from parents praising the improvement in their children's academic performance and behavior at home. Collect letters from teachers on school letterhead stating how TKD training has improved behavior and academic ability in class including conflict resolution, finishing work on time, ability to focus and complete work. Develop a mission statement and letter head that reflects your goals that will help apply to grant funding. Note the attached letterhead for Nome TKD Academy, Healthy Life Commitment and also the web link below. http://www.geocities.com/danscholten/HOMENOME.html One of the things we do that helps collect teacher and parent comments is the Request for Rank Advancement form. This form states reasons and type of progress we are looking for from each student under 18 that is looking to advance in rank. Every teacher and Parent/Guardian must comment and sign off. If they have one teacher or parent that is unhappy with the attitude or performance of the student in school or home they must negotiate a settlement and improve before progressing in rank. If you don't have all these things don't give up you have years to do this but start now and get what you can from others from research and references already given that will help you. You can build a website for free with out any cost on yahoo Geocities.com look at mine I have built four sites over the last four years. 2. Research: Local and web links A. Local Talk with Community or Public Heath officials and other groups in your area for possible help for funding. Remember you can fund classes, uniforms, safety equipment, and Cultural education. Performing Arts, Foreign Exchange, build something that will improve language and math skills, but you cannot fund sports competition or travel to sports functions. You could fund travel to Korea as a Cultural exchange or educational program. FREE FOTUNE 500 COMPANIE LISTS http://www.hoovers.com/global/mktg/index.xhtml?pageid=14332 &cm_ven=PAID&cm_cat=GGL&cm_pla=FTN&cm_ite=fortune_500_list Research the top 200-500 companies; first each company has a foundation for giving. Find the foundation web site and look at what they fund, how much they give and to what areas. Look at the eligibility requirements to see if you fit. Find out who they have given money to in your area and see if you can get money from that organization. LINK TO CFDA CATALOG OF FEDERAL DOMESTIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS http://12.46.245.173/cfda/cfda.html If you go to this link's home page it will teach you about how to apply and write a grant and do research. Frankly unless your are independently wealthy and have months if not years to play use this site as a way to find out what was given to whom in your area and go after them for money. Three basic principles both private/ state or federal grants: A. Do you meet eligibility requirements? Again you cannot even contact or apply if you do not have a 501C non-profit so have an entity set up to apply for you. Also your 501 C must have been in existence two years with receipts over $100,000 or more per year. Note Schools and Governmental municipalities are exempt and can apply or receive money for you but must meet the accounting requirements of the foundation or government grant agencies. A B. Send a letter of Interest and wait for a response after you have a discussion with the foundation or grant administrator or staff member that gives you some indication that your interest or application would meet their requirements and interest in funding. C. If you receive a letter favorable to you letter then submit an application. D. Look at amount of grants and how many grants they intend to award. If you need $5,000 or more and the total amount they are going to give is $200 each, your wasting your time even though they are giving ten million it makes no difference because by the time it is divided it of no use to you. Amounts under $5,000 will be best for you to try for. You can get funds for buildings and operating expenses but that requires multiple grants and donated lands ect. Again I recommend you find a grant administrator that has funds already or access to funds that will believe in what you are doing and just needs you to do certain things so he can give you the money or materials directly. I hope this proves useful and if you have direct questions don't hesitate to email me. Frankly the MA community has missed the point there is far more money available in grants than could ever be collected on a fee basis. Community Wellness, mental health, abuse issues, diet, recovery, life skills, behavior modification on and on and there is far more people in need for these than the next supper athlete going to the Olympics. My last point is that if you study old testament the book of judges, men of valor were raised up with special skills to protect and teach the community. I feel that traditional black belts are raised up to protect the weak and serve the community, we should all be doing what we can to effect change in the schools and homes of America. We should join together as brothers to do this. I recommend the WCTF, World Christian Tae Kwon Do Federation as a start for at least sharing ideas and moral support in working towards this goal http://www.wctf.net/ [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/vnd] [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of NOME TKD LETTERHEAD.doc] --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 02:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] rough landing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm being taught "jujitsuish" techniques at karate class without the benefit of fall mats, a rough landing indeed. The training only gets more rigourous as you climb the ranks, but thats a fact you all know well. I just can't seem to flip myself over enough to break my fall. I keep landing on my butt in an upright position in some of the techniques. Puzzle mats cover the floor, not much give. I've probably spent as much time at the chiropractors' office as I have in karate class. If I had known this type of training was included I would have kept looking for a school in the name of saving my back from possible permanent injury. So, practicing trips, takedowns and some throws on puzzle mats must be a common practice. If I wanted to learn this type of stuff I would have sought out an expert in hapkido, judo or jujitsu. fred __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 06:06:59 -0500 From: sidtkd@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I love volcanoes but hate lava Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To say we love the kicks but don't want to see hand technique disappear is a funny sttatement. Taekwondo is probabbly beeter called Tae Do inasmuch as we have so little in the way of hand technique. On the other hand Tae Soo Do as I understand it, is excessive in hand technique with little foot technique. After all these years I have come to understand that I personally would have been better suited for a form of Karate perhaps Kyokushin Kai. That for me...has it all. Low thigh kicks, gouges, punches, grappling good weapons technique and kick ass training. Be that as it may, tae kwondo is taekwondo and karate is karate. Given the litigous nature of our country, I doubt this will ever change. I think taekwondo should pretty much stay as is and we need more krate vs. tkd tournaments such as the ones S. Henry Cho ran. Just my two cents. Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:20:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You said: "The changing of the full contact rules to serve the Olympics and fear of the attorney's attempting to tap resources of a larger organization have watered down what was once a good spectator sport." Not sure I really agree in the context of this current thread. Olympic TKD is full contact and you are more likely to be seriously injured by a kick to the head than a punch. You cannot punch as hard as someone doing a turning roundhouse. That’s basic physics. So if it were the legalities associated with the full contact sport, I'd expect a suit from being kicked in the head. Incidentally, in some states kicking someone in the head is considered deadly force. Virginia is one. f. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Frank Clay" To: Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 07:43:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Joseph C Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You said " Don't know how you can tell from pics of some guy's cuts if they were made by a Korean or not." Unless you are a forensics expert looking at something physically, you are guessing. I'm seen a few slices in my time on the street and it can be very difficult to actually see the wound depending on the amount of blood that is present. In my mind it’s a guess... and further, even if the original poster is correct, is it not necessarily appropriate to indicate that it was the victims fault and the victim was rude. That kind of thinking is how we end up in a situation wherein victims have no rights and criminals have them all. Further, I feel like its inexcusable and irresponsible to make those kinds of suggestions. Frank --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:03:28 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] rough landing To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Fred, >From: freddie bishop [mailto:mauler681@yahoo.com] >I'm being taught "jujitsuish" techniques at karate class without the benefit of fall mats, a rough landing indeed. The training only gets more rigourous >as you climb the ranks, but thats a fact you all know well. I just can't seem to flip myself over enough to break my fall. I keep landing on my butt in an >upright position in some of the techniques. Puzzle mats cover the floor, not much give. I've probably spent as much time at the chiropractors' office as I >have in karate class. If I had known this type of training was included I would have kept looking for a school in the name of saving my back from possible >permanent injury. So, practicing trips, takedowns and some throws on puzzle mats must be a common practice. If I wanted to learn this type of stuff I would >have sought out an expert in hapkido, judo or jujitsu. > > fred I think you have described a very good reasons to cross train. I would suggest going to the nearest school that teaches a throwing art such as Judo, Jujitsu, Aikido, Hapkido, talk to the instructor and let them know the problem you are experiencing and let them know you want to learn how to fall, and fall well. When I started Judo, I was taught falls for 3 months, three days a week, 1.5 hours at a time. After the 3 months I was allowed to "try" a few throws, but still more break falls were drilled and drilled and drilled. Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Johnjfitzg@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:41:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Rick Clark on history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Rick Clark said: >I would think so, but is that a bad thing? The idea that TKD is some >old ancient Korean martial art is simply fabricated history. TKD came >directly from Japanese Karate, which in turn was a product of Okinawa, >which according to tradition owes a strong debt to China. So, if you >have a better way to perform a technique what is the difference between >you changing it and some guys back in 1945 changing Shotokan to meet >their needs? Quite frankly I suspect the modern martial artist has a >better understanding of the martial arts, broader base, and longer time >training than the guys back in 1945 who started the first Kwan. This statement is so true based on what I have read that I thought it should be repeated. It will be interesting to see if someday in the future TKD claims it invented the "after school programs" in the USA. John --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:57:51 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF President Attends Taekwondo Tourney Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net WTF President Attends 18th Fajr Int'l Taekwondo Tourney in Iran TEHRAN, Iran (March 5, 2006) --- WTF President Chungwon Choue paid a five-day visit to Iran to attend the 18th Fajr International Taekwondo Tournament, which was held in Teheran on March 2-3, 2006. It marked the first visit by the WTF head to Iran since the establishment of the world's taekwondo governing body in 1973. Iran became a WTF member national association in 1975. During his visit, Choue met with several ranking Iranian government officials, including vice President Mohammad Aliabadi, who is also the president of the Physical Education Organization; Mr. Reza Gharakhanlou, president of the National Olympic Committee of the Islamic Republic of Iran; and Seyyed Mohammad Khatami, former president of Iran. He also met with Seyyed Amir Hosseini, president of the Iran National Olympic Academy; and Dr. Abdoullah Jassbi, president of Azad University. Choue also had a meeting with Im Hong-jae, Korean Ambassador to Iran. In those meetings, Choue exchanged opinions with them on ways to promote taekwondo, promising to provide curriculum and other technical assistance to Iran in establishing a proposed taekwondo department at Iran's universities. "I will render our knowhow to Iran when it sets up a four-year taekwondo program at universities," Choue said in a meeting with Mr. Aliabadi and Mr. Gharakhanlou. Choue also invited Former Iranian President Seyyed Khatami to an international seminar on "Sports and Peace" as a keynote speaker to be held in Seoul next year by Kyung Hee University, earning a positive response from the former president. Choue gave an affirmative response to Korean Amb. Im's request for sending a taekwondo demonstration team to Iran this year for the Embassy's proposed "Korea Week." He also gave Amb. Im a right to choose one to two students at the University of Tehran to study at Kyung Hee University on full scholarships. Tehran and Kyung Hee universities signed a sisterhood agreement, but has made no tangible progress in academic fields so far. Choue spoke well of Iran's takwondo performances at home and abroad, calling Iran the "mecca of taekwondo in the Middle East." "I am happy to say that Iran is one of the most active WTF member countries in the world. I could easily see the high popularity of taekwondo here in Iran, which has more than one million taekwondo practitioners and over 3,000 taekwondo coaches," Choue said in his congratulatory remarks during the opening ceremony of the 18th Fajr International Taekwondo Tournament. The tournament, which dates back to 1987 to commemorate the victory of the Islamic Revolution of Iran in 1979, attracted about 100 athletes from 10 countries. The participating countries were Korea, Spain, China, Jordan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Armenia, Belalus and Iran. Iran won the overall title at the tournament with three gold medals and four bronze medals, followed by Korea with one gold and three silvers and Jordan with one gold and one silver. The two-day tournament, which was broadcast live for six hours a day across Iran, was held at the Afrasiah Shahid Sports Stadium. While in Iran, Choue visited the Taekwondo House, which served as the venue for last year's Fajr International Taekwondo Tournament. The Iranian government built the Taekwondo House in 2004, in recognition of taekwondo's high popularity in Iran. Iranian athlete Hadi Saei Bonekhohal, the gold medalist in the men's lightweight category in the taekwondo competition of the 2004 Athens Olympic Games, was voted as the World Player of the Year 2005 by the International Committee for Fair Play under the umbrella of the IOC. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest