Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:01:47 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #134 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Choson period official dress (Ray) 2. Re: Yuk Ro Forms (Ray) 3. RE: Choson period official dress (Rick Clark) 4. RE: Grand Celestial Do (Stovall, Craig) 5. Spam from Julian H. Forbes (Ray) 6. RE: Choson period official dress (Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy) 7. RE: RE: Grand Celestial Do (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: Spam from Julian H. Forbes (michael tomlinson) 9. RE: RE: Grand Celestial Do (Jason Thomas (Y!)) 10. Re: RE: Choson period official dress (Ray) 11. RE: RE: Grand Celestial Do (michael tomlinson) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Choson period official dress To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:11:18 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I don't think there is any way the Korean rank system came from China. > The Kyu/Dan system is something that was well established in Japan, most > think from Judo. My comment was not so much about the dan system, but about 9 ranks instead of 10 as seen in many other arts. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Yuk Ro Forms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:18:40 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have in my possession TANG SOO DO (SOO BAHK DO) by Hwang Kee. > (can't seem to locate an ISBN). > The title page indicates that it is copyrighted in 1992. The same page > also says that it was "first printed in English, February, 1978". When I > was first seeking this book I ran across a number of books, some of which > were keyed into specific ranks (gueps) and were identified with particular > colored belts. That is the second printing of Hwang Kee's first book, aka volume 1. A first edition does not have the name Soo Bahk Do in the title. The others you mention are the SBD instructional booklets. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:28:08 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Choson period official dress To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Ray, >From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] > >> I don't think there is any way the Korean rank system came >from China. >> The Kyu/Dan system is something that was well established in Japan, >> most think from Judo. > >My comment was not so much about the dan system, but about 9 >ranks instead >of 10 as seen in many other arts. > >Ray Terry Ah.....I had a Korean tell me that the reason they only went to 9 was that that was the last number that was a single digit. But that did not make sense, as they would have been using Chinese characters when they write not what we do. Then I was told that a Korean 1st dan was really the same as a Japanese 2nd dan. . . . . But to tell you the truth I really think they used the 9 was simply way to make the Korean different than the Japanese. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:43:39 -0600 From: "Stovall, Craig" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> People like this need to be culled in order to protect the integrity of the gene pool. Makes you wonder. I love the part where it says some other dude will be teaching classes while Grandmaster is away to the Orion System. Pretty harmless except for the fact that people like this drag the overall perception of martial arts down with them. Screw it...they need some sense knocked into them. Somebody call Chuck Norris. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Spam from Julian H. Forbes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thought this was funny and had to share... Someone named Julian H. Forbes has been spamming people on this list and other lists. I asked that it stop and received the following reply from his "PR Department". "We will not indulge your ignorant debate nor are we intimidated by threats made by those of little knowledge regarding accusations which can easily be proven untrue. Given the incredible worldwide response we have received from the biggest names and organizations in the martial arts we feel confident that you and your "others" will find solace together under the rock you call home and will never have to suffer crossing our path." Had to laugh... Isn't it great when people spam you and then claim that it isn't really spam because were you a REAL martial artist you would be interested in what they have to offer. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:07:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Choson period official dress Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray posted: If Henny says so I guess I must've said something about this once, but it's easier to repeat it than look up what I said. Yes, ChosOn dynasty court dress was identical with the court dress of the Ming dynasty, with the exception that the identical dress and emblems, etc. were two ranks (in the nine-rank scheme) lower in Korea. That is, the court dress of a Rank I (the highest rank) ChosOn official was identical to that of a Rank III official at the Ming court. This means that the last two ChosOn ranks, VIII and IX, had distinctive Korean designs. When Korean official embassies reached the area just outside the Chaoyang (East) Gate of Peking, they changed into their formal court dress and marched in a procession into the city and through the streets to their residence. It is said that those Chinese who still nourished pro-Ming (and therefore anti-Manchu) sentiments would come to secretely enjoy the spectacle. There are many stories in embassy diaries and other casual literature about emotional scenes with Chinese begging to touch, or even briefly wear, the Korean formal clothing. Other than this, the only permitted display of Ming dress that was permitted in Qing China was in the theatre, since the Peking Opera was essentially a Ming institution, and the historical character of the stories made the dress of earlier dynasties appropriate. One consequence of this is that when Korean officials went through the streets of the capital on their business, less sophisticated spectators would point and say, "Look! Actors!" I was taught way back as a GUP student that the reason that black belts where the only ones allowed to wear stripes on their uniforms was because the royal families of ancient Korea wore black striped clothing, or something similar, to make themselves stick out and be noticed as aristocrats among the common folk in the nearby villages. Has anyone else heard, or been taught, that? This story, if true, makes what I was taught make more sense. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:20:36 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net that is some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever read...what's worse....THERE WERE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WORKING OUT!!! Dang sometimes I really don't get it??? Michael Tomlinson >From: "Stovall, Craig" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 16:43:39 -0600 > ><<>> > > > >People like this need to be culled in order to protect the integrity of >the gene pool. Makes you wonder. > > > >I love the part where it says some other dude will be teaching classes >while Grandmaster is away to the Orion System. > > > >Pretty harmless except for the fact that people like this drag the >overall perception of martial arts down with them. Screw it...they need >some sense knocked into them. Somebody call Chuck Norris. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Spam from Julian H. Forbes Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:22:09 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Let's send that alien master instructor after these guys.... Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: [The_Dojang] Spam from Julian H. Forbes >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:08:09 -0800 (PST) > >Thought this was funny and had to share... > >Someone named Julian H. Forbes has been spamming people on this list and >other lists. I asked that it stop and received the following reply from >his "PR Department". > >"We will not indulge your ignorant debate nor are we intimidated by threats >made by those of little knowledge regarding accusations which can easily be >proven untrue. Given the incredible worldwide response we have received >from the biggest names and organizations in the martial arts we feel >confident that you and your "others" will find solace together under the >rock you call home and will never have to suffer crossing our path." > >Had to laugh... > >Isn't it great when people spam you and then claim that it isn't really >spam because were you a REAL martial artist you would be interested in >what they have to offer. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Jason Thomas \(Y!\)" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:42:24 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net -----Original Message----- From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:21 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do >that is some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever read...what's >worse....THERE WERE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WORKING OUT!!! Dang sometimes >I really don't get it??? I found it's only rivaled by: http://www.lethalo.com/pages/1/index.htm Jason --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: Choson period official dress To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 18:26:49 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I was taught way back as a GUP student that the reason that black belts > where the only ones allowed to wear stripes on their uniforms was because > the royal families of ancient Korea wore black striped clothing, or > something similar, to make themselves stick out and be noticed as > aristocrats among the common folk in the nearby villages. Has anyone else > heard, or been taught, that? I believe that is a MDK tale, why MDK uniforms are trimmed. But it seems that Korean formal dress may have been copied from the Ming. ??? You can see these uniforms that caught Hwang Kee's eye in the War Memorial Museum in Seoul. A link on Korean ceremonial dress, fwiw... http://www.asianinfo.org/asianinfo/korea/cel/hanbok.htm Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 02:49:23 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dude after reading that website I'm gonna sign off and go take a shower....I feel mentally dirty!!! How can there be so much bullshit without any bull??? Michael Tomlinson >From: "Jason Thomas (Y!)" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 19:42:24 -0600 > >-----Original Message----- >From: michael tomlinson [mailto:tomlinson_michael@hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 7:21 PM >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] RE: Grand Celestial Do > > >that is some of the most ridiculous stuff I've ever read...what's > >worse....THERE WERE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WORKING OUT!!! Dang >sometimes > >I really don't get it??? > >I found it's only rivaled by: http://www.lethalo.com/pages/1/index.htm > >Jason >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest