Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 03:01:18 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #137 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sul Sa Do/Tiger Kim (Chris Howe) 2. Cross training - real life value (Rick Clark) 3. Kicks and Science... (J Thomas Howard) 4. Gm Ji seminar in Spain (Ray) 5. Korea Trip Announcement (FirstPe315@aol.com) 6. Re: Re: Sul Sa Do/Tiger Kim (Jye nigma) 7. website (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 23:58:49 +1100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Chris Howe Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sul Sa Do/Tiger Kim Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There was a Taekwondo master (8th dan from memory) named Tiger Kim teaching in Sydney (Australia) in the late 80s who also purported to teach Sul Sa Do. I saw a demonstration his school did at a tournament around that time and, aside from some acrobatics, the only thing that looked any different from fairly standard taekwondo and hapkido techniques was the fact that they were dressed up in ninja outfits and were using a bunch of Japanese/Okinawan weapons. It was not particularly impressive. He didn't advertise that he was the inheritor of the style at the time, and he didn't appear to have any problems showing off what they did. I have no idea whether he is still teaching or not. Chris >Message: 10 >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) >From: Jye nigma >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: [The_Dojang] From an email: the Sul Sa Do guy >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >ok so I got this email from the sul sa do guy ( >http://www.sulsado.it/indiceEng.htm ). > I find it down right funny that on his page he claims sulsado is a > complete martial art and that unlike japanese ninjutsu being imported > from china, sulsado was homegrown meaning made in korea, yet in the title > of his name he uses a japanese term associated with ninjutsu- Master > Orlando Shinobi. ...lol. Then on top of of that, he calls it korean > ninjutsu which implies that sulsado is the korean version of > ninjutsu...lol. but anyhow, I wrote him saying I liked his HAPKIDO clips > and was wondering when he was going to share some SUL SA DO clips...lol > and this is what he wrote back: > > Who taught you sulsa techniques? > Secondly their are new videos,but their is not many at the moment cause > we are constructing the web site. > I demonstrated Sul Sa techniques so far,but if your asking special > techniques of Sul Sa I do not see how I am going to demonstrate secret > techniques on wide world web. > I have web site to notify people of our existance but am not really > intrested to much about publicty as it is more for my students. > I teach a very hard training style of martial arts and this method > could not be stressed on a website. > If I do a presentation video,then I will contact you ,if your intrested > in viewing real SulSaDo. > If you are with the Hwarang Sulsa people in the states,well we had a > the cheif Instructor of Hwarang Italy at our school 2 weeks ago,and with > little he saw,he remained impressed at the high standards of our Sulsado > Academy.He repeatedly gave us credits and said he never saw a school with > high standards like ours worldwide. > I hope this helps, > My Grandmaster does not even let people watch lessons,and it was hard > to get permission to do this web site,so until now hope you enjoy. > Best regards. > Orlando Shinobi > Sul Sa Do 6°Dan > > Ok now that you've read that email let me point out some things....lol. > 1)he claims what he demonstrated was sulsa techniques- then hell sulsa > is hapkido and TKD stuff with acrobatics...lol. > 2)he said the special techniques of sulsa are secret ...lol. there are > no secrets in the martial art. > 3) he says the website is to let people know the school exists and he's > not interested in publicity, yet on his website it states he has his own > tv show, and it flashes across the top that sul sa do has been on tv and > the news, and that he's performed at martial art events etc...lol. > 4)he says he teaches a very hard training style of MA...hey no doubt, I > know HAPKIDO has got to be hard to train in...lol. > 5)he says he's gonna share a video of REAL sulsado with me....well what > is fake sulsado...lol. > 6)now this is the kicker...he says the hwarang guys (dr joo bang lee > guys) gave him positive feedback on his sulsado training > standards...ummm...is it me or didn't dr joo bang lee say that sulsa are > skills and NOT a complete martial art? if so then how is it one of His > folks goes to a place in which dr lee states (in oh so many words) is a > fake and gives any type of positive feedback? lol...wow now that guy sure > made a loooong stretch on that story...lol. > 7)last but not least he claims his grandmaster (Grandmaster Tiger Kim > 39th generation lineage holder, nephew of General jin tae-kim 38th > generation lineage holder) doesn't allow anyone to view training....hmmmm > I wonder why? maybe he is afraid that if anyone saw the training, they'd > spot the SECRET of sulsado techniques.....which is HAPKIDO...lol. That is > if this grandmaster tiger kim even exists...lol. > > Jye > > > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:00:19 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Cross training - real life value Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We were talking about cross training and the value of doing it at different times, if you should do it or not. I just got an email from a ex student of mine who passed on an incident that happened to him. I have cut out some of the email for personal reasons. "You probably don't remember me as much as I do you. I was a student at the University from 89' - 93'. I had taken just about every martial arts class that you taught and the Criminology classes too (Criminology Major). I really enjoyed . . . . . . you taught me a lot . . . . . In one instance.I had a wreck on a motorcycle. I wasn't wearing any protective clothing (only shorts and tank top), and no helmet. The bike had washed out upon hitting oil on the interstate (65mph). It had immediately slide on its side with me still sitting on the bike in riding position. I had a little road rash on my arms and legs, but my head never hit the pavement. The only thing that I could ever come up with is the training that I had received in your Judo classes on landing from falls (keeping your head up). Of course I didn't slap the mat though (hahaha)." I guess you never know when the stuff you teach will really come as a benefit to those you have had the opportunity to work with. Stories like this reinforce why I believe in cross training my students and myself. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 09:03:55 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicks and Science... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was going to leave this alone, but it kept bugging me. > From: "Gladewater SooBahkDo" > Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicks/ Yk Ro Hyungs > The one fact that can not be argued, is that physics describes Force as Mass > times Speed. No. Newton's second law says that Force = mass * acceleration. Very different thing. > A persons center of gravity is at the hips/waist. This means the > more weight or hip used the more power that can be dilivered. While I may agree with the outcome of this comment in general (though not as an absolute rule), I will say that this does not logically follow your above statement. There are many ways to produce power, and "putting your weight into it" is only one of them. It does seem to be the one most prevalently taught in the martial arts. I'll also say that putting "more weight or hip" into the technique does _not_ automatically increase the power that can be delivered. (Among other things, because "power" and "force" are not the same, nor are they the same as "effect." > I would also like to say to Mr. Clark. It is good to see you replied to my > last post with respect and tact. I will also note here that while Mr. Clark is quite capable of dealing with discussions by himself, after reading the postings from both of you, I believe you have no business commenting on someone else's respect and tact. Perhaps you should re-read some of the past dojang-digests and think about how various people (including yourself) replied. I should note that I don't know Mr. Clark personally, though I've read his postings here on the_dojang for quite awhile. I don't always agree with him :) but he makes his positions clear, including his reasoning. Thomas H. ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net hapkido.4t.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 10:20:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Ji seminar in Spain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarding... INTERNATIONAL SIN MOO HAPKIDO SEMINAR Valencia (Spain)- Saturday June 10th, 2006 With the Grand Master & Founder JI HAN JAE --------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear friends: I advance you definitive details about the SEMINAR WITH DOJU-NIM JI HAN JAE in Spain for next June 10th, as well as prices, place and lodging for the HAPKIDO GALA 2006. Here enclosed you will find documentation for the inscription. This should be paid and sent correctly to the Asociacion Espanola de Sin Moo Hapkido before June 2nd. INTERNATIONAL SIN MOO HAPKIDO SEMINAR WITH DOJU-NIM JI HAN JAE Place: UNIVERSIDAD DE VALENCIA, Av. Tarongers, s/n Valencia (next to the soccer field), Martial Arts Room. Seminar time: Morning: 10,00 to 13,00 h. Afternoon: 15,30 to 18,30 h. Seminar price: 100 Eurus for person. Warning: Inscription until June, 2nd DINNER-HOMAGE 70th ANIVERSARY of DOJU-NIM JI HAN JAE & HAPKIDO NATIONAL AWARDS 2006 Place: HOTEL ABASHIRI, Av. Ausias March, 59 Valencia Dinner time: At 22,00 h. Dinner price: 38 Eurus for person. Warning: Inscription until June, 2nd LODGING: (In the same Hotel of the Hapkido-Gala) HOTEL ABASHIRI, Av. Ausias March, 59 Valencia Telephone book (Hotel Abashiri) No. 34-96-3356310 To book a room you should indicate for the Hapkido- Gala of June 10th (Als reference). Rooms price: Double room: 56 Eurus. Single room: 51 Eurus. Breakfast buffet: 11 Eurus. Prices for room and night. http://www.hotelnhabashiri.com/index.spanish.html Greetings and until soon. Sincerely. RAFAEL BALBASTRE Asociacion Espanola de Sin Moo Hapkido www.sinmoohapkido.org info@sinmoohapkido.org -------------------------------------------------------------------- Webs of interest: http://www.hotelnhabashiri.com/index.spanish.html http://www.valencia.es/ http://www.turisvalencia.es http://www.valencians.com/cac/ http://www.infocostablanca.com/index.html http://www.casaisabel.es/ http://www.todoesp.es/casa-clemencia/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 14:44:43 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korea Trip Announcement Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just thought I would give a heads up if anybody had money sitting around and maybe wante to go to Korea with a group of pretty cool guys...and gals! The WHA, headed by President Tae Jung is sponsoring a trip to Korea for touring and training. It will be from July 2 through July 9th. All expenses, airfare, lodging (4-Star), food, training expenses et. al. is provided. Extremely good price with everything included. We thoroughly enjoy all individuals from any styles and associations at our seminars and this is definitely no exception. Any interest, go to www.kimartialarts.com for detailed information, brochure and registration information. You may also contact Master Dan Piller at that site for anything else you may need. Thanks for the bandwidth... Respectfully, Jeff Hindley PR Director WHA Representative Oregon --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:10:15 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Sul Sa Do/Tiger Kim To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...exactly what I thought, a bunch of TKD guys playing ninja....lol.Look at this guy's response to some of my questions... lol: When I started Sul Sa Do more than 25 years ago our master used double names as he taught the korean way (which has nothing to do with hwarang sulsa school of america) plus used common japanese weapon terms like shuriken,kama,sai nunchaku ect..... He used all the japanese language because in Australia SulSaDo was new to us, and to help introduce it to the unknown people he used japanese terms and even publicized as NinJA schools.Even though the publicity was through word of mouth mainly. Even I started teaching 15 years ago in Italy using Ninja as first name and Japanese terms in my classes.My first years teaching SulSaDo where basic teachings of general Martial Arts which to the common eye seemed like several arts mixed together.If someone poped in while we was doing bag work they may of watched a few minutes and stated it seemed like kick boxing.If we where using shuriken (Beoll) they may of said it was Kung Fu.If we used Jan Tan Do (Sai) they may of said it is Kobudo.If we was doing basic exercises and kicks they said it looks like Karate.If they saw us doing throws they would say its Judo.Combat:TaeKwonDo,Short stick:Escrima,Ground fighting: Vale Tudo,Our videos you said Hapkido ( which demonstrates you know little of! as videos are more breaking and kicking techniques .hence :Tae Kwon Do) Hapkido is alot similar to Aikido but it goes further in its moves towards breaking elbows,arms & legs. I've been a very elite Tae Kwon Do student and trained with the very best tae Kwon Do Grandmaster 9th Dan and earned my 6st Dan. I trained with a very high Grandmaster 8th Dan Hapkido and earned 4th Dan in Hapkido. I have trained in Sul SA Do with the highest ranking worldwide Sul SA Do Grandmaster 8thDan SulSaDo,8th Dan Tae Kwon Do and earned 6st Dan. Our art is very secret, and most arts have poor historical documentation.Their are many factors of Sul Sa Do history which also me and my students are researching presently.as we research it is always more true that ninja came from korea.and another fact is that samurai was also derived from koreans. If we want to talk about opnions and history,lets talk about the most famous:the bible! Why does so many people believe in so many religions? Why does many people not believe in God? Why does so many people look at others when they do not look at themselves beforehand? This is not Martial Arts so I'll stop here! I will just like to inform you on how SulSaDo really is taught ,and then I will let you know how I teach it! Real Sul Sa Do modern training requires Black Belt degree earned previously in one of the following Martial Arts: Karate,Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido, Tang Soo Do. In Real Sul Sa Do modern training you can enroll only once a month period.You are not allowed to watch lessons,you can not video,photograph or show techniques out side the dojang.In the enrollment day their is a general demonstration open to people who have requested application,after the demonstration ,who wants to join up has to be interviewed by the Grandmaster.The Grandmaster askes many questions about you, your past and your previous martial arts training.You then must do over 100 push ups, 250 sit ups and a small exam of your forms ,sparring etc... If you qualify you start training using your current black belt.Only on examination day you wear the SulSaDo colour belt. If you skip more than 2 weeks training without a good excuse you where likely not to be ever again part of the Sulsa Academy.Serious codes of discipline where applied to ever lesson,and the training is very very hard,nothing that modern people like! Only for the serious Black Belt. Sul Sa Do is a martial art which gave me more than any other art ,it gave me a way of being and thinking,it really saved my life in situations where the mind had to be of first priority.Sul Sa Do is a real warrior art and besides all the history,as an expert in Martial Arts I can only say every art has its defects and its praises,every art is massed and tries to form new instructors like Mc Donalds.I have been asked many times to teach people to become instructors by corispondence,I do not believe in this and also select my students.I have a small school and in Italy they say its a big school(Martial Arts is not popular in Italy-Majority say its violence). I teach people without black belt or no previous martial arts or sporting background, but I select who can come to my lessons,the training gets tougher,and tougher and their is a natural selection also.I must teach a basic martial way at first and then slowly ,slowly take them to higher levels.So high that our 1st Dans seem like 4th dan Masters in other arts. Another thing about all the above is my Grandmaster did not talk much English,He did not talk much at all.Most material of history on this web was written by students I still have not checked the history or most of the web yet.I trust my students,and its because of them their is a web site.I really believe in technique and way of superior mind as the warriors.I love martial arts and thats why I have written so much here,and you are lucky because to get most of the information I know it took me years of patience while here I'm speaking freely to someone I do not even know nothing about. But by the way you speak in your last mail I can tell you do not know much about Korean Arts,you study Japanese Arts and mainly one (properly Ninjutsu). People who doubt alot are people with little faith and are closed minded and usually follow one Martial Art,and if you have done something else you have never exceded 2 years of it.If you open your mind and think of training hard and try your best you will become your best! I am a master of three different korean martial Arts and its difficult for one to be faithfully to more than an art if not open minded. Remember SulSaDo or any other Martial Art can not be demonstrated or judged to its fullest potential,as we are all human and express our selves all differently.I too was doubtful of ninjutsu and sulsado when i started,but when I saw the quality and the superior techniques it amazed me like no other art.I am still amazed after all these years and will proberly be for the rest of my life.While you are thinking of ways to find defects in my nickname Shinobi or the history of Sul Sa Do why does no one talk about our style? People and Masters all call us professionals at Martial Arts exhibitions,I do not think we are professional yet, but I know someone who is! I hope you have had patience to read all,and let me know about you as it is my pleasure to know who I spoke to. Orlando Shinobi (nick name like jye, jye who?????) Sul Sa Do Italy --------------------------------- Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 15:18:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.tigerkims.com/ --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest