Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:02:16 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #141 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: koguryo language(s) (Joseph Cheavens) 2. Friello resigns (Ray Terry) 3. Re: koguryo language(s) (Dan Wills) 4. Re: Science and Martial Arts... (J Thomas Howard) 5. RE: Re: Science and Martial Arts... (Erik Brann) 6. www.londonkoreanlinks.net (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] koguryo language(s) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:32:41 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yep, its me. I'm baaaaaack. What have you been up to since the demise of USMAI? I've moved down to South Austin (near South 1st and Slaugther Ln) and have been looking around south of Town Lake for a dojang to drop my geta. We had our baby this last October 26. Gwyneth Anne Cheavens. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "Edward Peters, III" Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] koguryo language(s) Date:  Tue, 21 Mar 2006 23:01:57 -0600 >Joe, is that you.  Joe from U.S.M.A.I.? > >What's up. > >Edward >U.S.M.A.I.  HKD instructor. > > >Joseph Cheavens wrote: > >>Would that be Vovin-sensei from the University of Hawai'i at Manoa? >>  He's a great guy and a really good Nihongo instrudctor. >> >>Joe Cheavens >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:44:55 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Friello resigns Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Affiliated Member Representative Mike Friello's Resignation from USAT Board of Directors March 22, 2006 On January 17, USA Taekwondo received the following letter of resignation from USAT Board of Directors Affiliated Member Representative Mike Friello of the Amateur Athletic Union. The AAU Executive Committee felt that Mr. Friello's position on the USAT Board created a potential conflict of interest, and that it would be best for both organizations if Mr. Friello resigned his seat on the USAT Board of Directors. USAT hopes the posting of this letter will alleviate any confusion as to this situation. David Askinas, CEO of USAT, had this comment with regard to Mr. Friello's resignation: " We are willing to sit down with any affiliated member of USAT to work together on mutually beneficial programs to benefit the sport. We have reached out on many occasions to the AAU to come to the table and work on programs to engage their membership in USAT programs. We look forward to meaningful dialogue on these issues in the future." Friello's resignation letter = http://usa-taekwondo.us/FrielloResignationLetter011706.pdf --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Dan Wills Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] koguryo language(s) Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:12:32 +0800 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net How do we get a copy of this. Thanks, Dan On Mar 22, 2006, at 6:04 AM, Ray wrote: > forwarding... > > The latest issue of the "Journal of Inner and East Asian Studies" > (vol. 2-2, > DEZ 2005) publ. by the Koguryo Research Foundation is a special issue > "The > Language(s) of Koguryo" carrying articles by To Soo Hee, Beckwith, > Janhunen, > Unger, and Vovin, and an extensive summary of the Hamburg conference > on the > same subject last year by Robbeets, > Greetings, Werner Sasse > > For copies and communication: journal@koguryo,re,kr > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:46:45 -0600 (CST) From: thomcat@binary.net (J Thomas Howard) Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Science and Martial Arts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Erik Brann" > Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Respect and Science > > Having a math/physics background, here's some interesting science. > Force = mass x acceleration (F = Ma) > Work equals Force times displacement (W=Fd) > Power equals Work divided by Time, which equals force times distance divided > by time which equals force times velocity (P = FV) Hmm. True, as long as several assumptions hold. 1) Force and displacement are in the same direction 2) velocity = average velocity (thus, no acceleration) However, the problem is that "power, "force," and "effect" are the not the same things. :) > The very best resource I have seen is here: > http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30570 I finally had time to take a look at this, and I'm afraid that you probably don't want to use it as a resource. Their initial equation is: E=mgh + (1/2)mv² + (1/2)mr²w² ...and just from that, it doesn't work. The mass of the body is used for all energies, and it shouldn't be: gravitational potential energy due to body drop is one thing, but the kinetic energy of the hand and the rotational energy of the hand/wrist shouldn't use the mass of the body. Additionally, the fact that potential energy is used instead of the *change* in potential energy makes the whole thing nonsensical. Adding to that the fact that since we are talking about different types of energy completely, AND the fact that Work does not equal Energy with regard to movement, (and thus "effect" certainly doesn't) ---suffice it to say that it just doesn't add up that way. Their later equations show an ability to manipulate math, without an actual understanding of what the concepts actually mean. For example, they use the basic equations of motion for velocity and acceleration to produce an equation (using incorrect math) saying that: v = v2La ...which it doesn't. However, their comment afterward is that "speed increases with the square root of the distance" so according to them, a longer arm can reach a higher speed at impact. Theoretically, yes. Realistically, not necessarily, based on the human body. For the rest of it, they make statements then "prove" them using numbers they make up. As such, their "proof" is a bit suspect, particularly since they seem to equate "energy" with "strength." I mean no criticism of the original poster of this email, but I did want to say that this particular exercise is not a correct use of physics. The second-to-the-bottom poster there makes the cogent point that it simply isn't that simple. Overall, though, it is worth reading just to get the citations from the bottom of the first posting on the website, because they are interesting articles. Periodically, the_dojang gets "science and martial arts" conversations going, most of which tend to get started by people who have just learned F=ma and other things, and talk about how cool they are. Then the party-poopers like us grumpy people chime in with a lot of "it's not that simple!" comments and grumpily demonstrate why not. After that, it kind of trails off... I think Dave Steffen handled the last outbreak. Apparently this one was my turn. :) I will say that using basic kinematics (such as Newton's laws of motion) is a good way to conceptually understand some of the ways we cause effective movement in the martial arts. But you can't take the equations too literally, because the real life gets very complicated very quickly, and simple applications of basic equations don't mirror reality well enough. In this case, basic physics is best used as a metaphor. Scary, huh? Thomas Howard Nebraska Hapkido Association ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net hapkido.4t.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: Science and Martial Arts... Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:18:57 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks, The math looked right on that page, but I didn't go through it meticulously -----Original Message----- From: J Thomas Howard [mailto:thomcat@binary.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 8:47 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Science and Martial Arts... > From: "Erik Brann" > Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Respect and Science > > Having a math/physics background, here's some interesting science. > Force = mass x acceleration (F = Ma) > Work equals Force times displacement (W=Fd) Power equals Work divided > by Time, which equals force times distance divided by time which > equals force times velocity (P = FV) Hmm. True, as long as several assumptions hold. 1) Force and displacement are in the same direction 2) velocity = average velocity (thus, no acceleration) However, the problem is that "power, "force," and "effect" are the not the same things. :) > The very best resource I have seen is here: > http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30570 I finally had time to take a look at this, and I'm afraid that you probably don't want to use it as a resource. Their initial equation is: E=mgh + (1/2)mv² + (1/2)mr²w² ...and just from that, it doesn't work. The mass of the body is used for all energies, and it shouldn't be: gravitational potential energy due to body drop is one thing, but the kinetic energy of the hand and the rotational energy of the hand/wrist shouldn't use the mass of the body. Additionally, the fact that potential energy is used instead of the *change* in potential energy makes the whole thing nonsensical. Adding to that the fact that since we are talking about different types of energy completely, AND the fact that Work does not equal Energy with regard to movement, (and thus "effect" certainly doesn't) ---suffice it to say that it just doesn't add up that way. Their later equations show an ability to manipulate math, without an actual understanding of what the concepts actually mean. For example, they use the basic equations of motion for velocity and acceleration to produce an equation (using incorrect math) saying that: v = v2La ...which it doesn't. However, their comment afterward is that "speed increases with the square root of the distance" so according to them, a longer arm can reach a higher speed at impact. Theoretically, yes. Realistically, not necessarily, based on the human body. For the rest of it, they make statements then "prove" them using numbers they make up. As such, their "proof" is a bit suspect, particularly since they seem to equate "energy" with "strength." I mean no criticism of the original poster of this email, but I did want to say that this particular exercise is not a correct use of physics. The second-to-the-bottom poster there makes the cogent point that it simply isn't that simple. Overall, though, it is worth reading just to get the citations from the bottom of the first posting on the website, because they are interesting articles. Periodically, the_dojang gets "science and martial arts" conversations going, most of which tend to get started by people who have just learned F=ma and other things, and talk about how cool they are. Then the party-poopers like us grumpy people chime in with a lot of "it's not that simple!" comments and grumpily demonstrate why not. After that, it kind of trails off... I think Dave Steffen handled the last outbreak. Apparently this one was my turn. :) I will say that using basic kinematics (such as Newton's laws of motion) is a good way to conceptually understand some of the ways we cause effective movement in the martial arts. But you can't take the equations too literally, because the real life gets very complicated very quickly, and simple applications of basic equations don't mirror reality well enough. In this case, basic physics is best used as a metaphor. Scary, huh? Thomas Howard Nebraska Hapkido Association ------------------------------------ thomcat@binary.net hapkido.4t.com "If you aren't modeling what you are teaching then you are teaching something else." _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 19:12:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] www.londonkoreanlinks.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FWIW... London Korean Links http://www.londonkoreanlinks.net "...designed for people, with English as their first language, who are interested in Korean culture. It's also designed to help Londoners in particular to pursue these interests." --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest