Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:35:35 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #144 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: knuckle pushups (Craig Zeigler) 2. Re: knuckle pushups (Craig Zeigler) 3. finger tip pushups (freddie bishop) 4. RE: Knuckle pushups (Howard Spivey) 5. WTF Holds 2nd Electronic Protector Demonstration (Ray Terry) 6. Re: finger tip pushups (Jye nigma) 7. RE: knuckle push-ups (George Peters) 8. video clip: gun disarms (Jye nigma) 9. Re: Science and Martial Arts... (tim walker) 10. knuckle push ups (Richard Tomlinson) 11. Good wrist strengthning (Richard Tomlinson) 12. black belt TV (Jye nigma) 13. Re: video clip: gun disarms (WTSDA Bruce) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:22:31 -0500 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] knuckle pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net freddie bishop wrote: > I have done these in judo and karate, I feel for the >purpose of developing a stronger grip. I have asked >several PT's and most say knuckle pushups are not very >efficient grip developers. They recommended exercises >that mimic the action such as gripping. They also >recommended weighted wrist flexion and extentions in >addition to using towel twisting and using hand >grippers which are sold at Walmart. > There is a PT in my karate class who is a black belt >and I have the idea that he does the knuckle pushups >just because the instructor says to do them. > > Fred > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > I've always done knuckle pushups, but never on a hard surface. Common sense tells up thats not good for you. My instructor justifies doing them on carpet by saying it toughens your knuckles, but who knows if thats true or not. Like someone said, thats just the way we've done it for ages, so it continues. Knuckle pushups are not required, but it is prefered. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:25:39 -0500 From: Craig Zeigler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] knuckle pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: >>that all depends on the type of mat--doing them on a vinyl mat is pretty >>much the same as hitting a heavy bag without wraps...especially if you roll >>on the fist as you do them. heck, even some carpets cam have the same >>effect. >> >> > >Only if that heavy bag is filled with concrete. > >Do them on a mat, any mat, or carpet and then try on rough concrete. Big >difference. > > >Reminds me of a story... :) > >A friend and I were waiting for a seminar to begin, it was being held in a >muay thai school. In a MT school it is common to have a number of the large >(6 ft long) heavy bags (banana bags) lined up across one end of the gym. They >are like a pillow on one end of the line and progress to the concrete filled >bag on the other end. The idea is to start on the soft end as a beginnner >and then progress up the line to a harder and harder bag. > >As we waited for the seminar to start my friend was feeling the bag on >the soft end and then wandered slowly down the line to the hard end. Upon >arriving to the concrete bag he decided it was time to warm up a bit with >a few kicks on the bag. > >As I watched from across the gym he hauled off and kicked the concrete >bag with all his heart... and then tried to act as if he didn't just about >break his leg. He limped around the rest of that entire week... > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > > > Darwin would be proud :) --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 05:39:17 -0800 (PST) From: freddie bishop To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] finger tip pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have also posed the question of finger tip pushups for grip development and conditioning for striking to some PT's (physical therapist). They said doing pushups on knuckles or fingertips is the same as doing any other isometric exercise. You gain some benefit in strength, but exercises that use movement or dynamic action which closely mimics the intended use of the body is much more effective. They also said the fingertips are not designed to be used as bludgeoning weapons, they said they would use a grabbing technique to rip away at tendons particularly the tendons of the neck. I have witnessed on several occasions where people, like my father, using their fingertips for striking to great affect, and he performed fingertip pushups as well as various other gripping exercises and weight training for hand strength on a regular basis. I would say, after interviewing the PT's that it was the complete collection of training techniques my used is what led to his amazing ability to strike with the fingertips. Fred __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Howard Spivey" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 10:53:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Knuckle pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with this. I always found them helpful in reinforcing the mechanics of a proper punching fist (using the same two knuckles that Ray mentions to strike), and they definitely seem to help with keeping the fist properly alinged with the wrist when punching. I've done them for a long time, and have suffered no ill effects. I also agree that they don't do anything to strengthen your grip. There's an old Hapkido exercise that works well for that - just open and close your fist completely and forcefully, over and over. No equipment needed. Also, fingertip pushups seem to help strengthen the grip, but I don't know if there's any science behind that. Ray wrote: "I've never thought of them of doing much for grip development. ??? They are meant to toughen the knuckles of the fore and middle finger, i.e. the punching kuckles. Also helps reinforce making a proper fist; wrist straight, etc." --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:00:22 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] WTF Holds 2nd Electronic Protector Demonstration Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net SEOUL (March 25, 2006) --- The World Taekwondo Federation held a demonstration of electronic protectors in Seoul on March 25, 2006. The demonstration, the second of its kind organized by WTF after the July 20, 2005, demonstration, drew four electronic protector manufacturers -- LaJUST of Korea; ATM of Austria; True Score (Impact Measurement), a joint venture between the United States and Korea; and Daedo International of Spain. The one-day demonstration, which took place at Kyung Hee University in Seoul, was conducted before WTF President Chungwon Choue and other WTF leaders from at home and abroad, along with members of the ad-hoc WTF Electronic Protector Committee. Also in attendance at the demonstration was Dr. Cha-sok Park, president of the Pan American Taekwondo Union. In the morning, all the four participating companies demonstrated their respective body protectors, and LaJUST and Daedo showed off their body protector and headgear demonstrations. In the afternoon, there were question-and-answer sessions. "The demonstration today is very important for the future of taekwodno and WTF. We will do out utmost to make judgment and refereeing at taekwondo competitions the most objective and transparent," said Dr. Chungwon Choue, president of WTF. As part of WTF's reform program, the ad-hoc committee on electronic protectors was set up in July 2005 and held its first meeting together with a demonstration of electronic protectors on July 20, 2005, in Seoul. The committee is composed of nine members, including Mr. Soo-nam Park, vice president of WTF, who serves as chairman of the committee; and Mr. Eui-min Ko, chairman of the WTF Technical Committee. Among other committee members are Mr. Amr Khairy of Egypt, vice chairman of the WTF Technical Committee; and Mr. Chakir Chelbat of Sweden, member of the WTF Refereeing Committee. In accordance with the recommendations of the ad-hoc committee after the first demonstration on July 20, 2005, WTF commissioned the Korea Institute of Sports Science to produce a report on basic specifications on electronic protectors. On Dec. 30, 2005, WTF announced the KISS-set specifications. The ad-hoc committee on electronic protectors held meetings on March 24 and is scheduled to have another meeting on March 26 at the WTF Headquarters. At the meetings, the committee, aimed at developing criteria for evaluating the technological aspects of electronic protectors, is to finalize the time table for the certification and recognition procedures of electronic protector companies. WTF aims to introduce the new electronic protector system at the next World Taekwondo Championships to be held in Beijing, China, in 2007 and plans to use the new system at the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games to help ensure fairness in refereeing and judgment at taekwondo competition. The WTF Reform Report, which was produced in February 2005, recommended the introduction of a highly effective and accurate electronic protector system as a valuable addition to the sport by helping make judgment more objective. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] finger tip pushups To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I do fingertip pushups, and it's been my experience that they do not aid in gripping strength. I have some basic exercises I do that deal with gripping skills...I'll share those in a sec. I started doing fingertip pushups to develop strength in my finger striking techniques (techniques which require the striking surface of the fingertips). What I noticed is that my fingers began to be more stiff right after the exercises and then seem to have the feeling of 'normal' minutes after the exercise. As a result techniques like the cranes beak, snake fist(which is like spear hand), and shooting stars (which is like darting fingers) all have an increase of power, and I can perform them without injuring the fingers. The difference is one that can't really be explained yet when experienced you automatically know the difference. Just poking with a finger hurts and the pain is a deeply penetrating pain. Now as far as gripping strength, I have a few exercises I perform ranging from a tiger claw technique in dirt and closing the claw to grip dirt to holding very large objects varying in weight. the easiest training device is a can of paint, palm the can of paint and walk with it. I use this tactic when carrying groceries. when you become proficient at this exercise you will be able to carry an object that is very large where you use the maximum span of your hand with very little curvature of your fingers yet you'll have an enormous grip on it...AND the best part about it is you'll be able to carry heavy items. A prime example is how I can carry 2 tower PCs for long distances in each hand. Doesn't sound like alot until you do it. Those exercises help in gripping technique. Then when you mix that with a clawing technique of tiger claw or eagle claw for a martial technique you can have devestating results...for the opponent that is. Jye --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "George Peters" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:25:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: knuckle push-ups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Good Master Timmerman, I very much agree and did not consider the effect on the growth plates in youth. My first instructor would not permit anyone under the age of 17 to use the heavy bag either for the same reason. Respectfully, George --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:12:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net this is terrible in my opinion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqG0wrtC9w&search=black%20belt --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "tim walker" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:53:22 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Science and Martial Arts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<...Their initial equation is: E=mgh + (1/2)mv² + (1/2)mr²w² ...>> You guys PROMISED there wouldn't be any more math! timo "Can't count to 21 with my pants on" --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:30:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] knuckle push ups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kids do not do them well, so 10 or 5 at a time so you can teach how to do them, dont expect kids to do perfect push ups, will not ever happen.... adults, encourage to do for strength.... Sandy --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:33:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Good wrist strengthning Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is another way to strengthen wrists, take a large bath towel, wet thoroughly and ring out as much water as possible. Do this daily, it also strengthens the fore arms and shoulders, back and abs if sone standing over a tub. --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 17:19:24 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma To: MartialArtsTalk@yahoogroups.com Subject: [The_Dojang] black belt TV Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net http://www.blackbelttv.com/BROADCAST_ONLINE.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "WTSDA Bruce" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 20:12:14 -0600 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This was very entertaining, he has skill. But in most of the gun take always he would be dead or seriously wounded. Maybe this is just LE training, but I believe you need to remove the target first. Then you take control of the weapon and take it away. Most of the skills demoed here, this is not done. Wish all the bad guys were this stupid, almost as good as gang banger style grip. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms > this is terrible in my opinion: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqG0wrtC9w&search=black%20belt > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, > low rates. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest