Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:25:22 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #145 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on plus11.host4u.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.3 required=5.0 tests=MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-Spam-Level: * Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. knuckle push ups (Richard Tomlinson) 2. RE: video clip: gun disarms (michael tomlinson) 3. knuckle pushups (MSKBEvans@aol.com) 4. knuckle pushups (Art V V) 5. Knuckle push-ups & grip excercises ideas (Ko-Online.com) 6. Re: video clip: gun disarms (steven riggs) 7. Re: Good wrist strengthning (Jye nigma) 8. Re: video clip: gun disarms (Alida) 9. disarms (Ray) 10. Re: disarms (Ray) 11. Juan Moreno remembers when the United States was feared (Ray Terry) 12. Science and Martial Arts (Dave Steffen) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:52:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] knuckle push ups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net By the way, we should be able to do push ups on any surface??? Do our moves in any clothing and shoes... I would like to hear about any training one does in normal clothing and shoes, outside the dojang... Thanks! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:56:29 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net we do those same gun disarming techniques...in other words I recognize all of those techs. in the Hapkido curriculum I learned from Hal Whalen....the problem is IMHO with this version is that the most important step is missing....and that is getting your body out of the line of the muzzle before you try the disarm....I have my guys learn it...a....hands up and talk....b....quickly move off the muzzle line...c...do the gun disarm according to the situation.....now b... and c... are just a nanosecond apart...BUT if you try c...before....b...you get shot....hard stuff but it's better than maybe doing nothing if the situation comes down to that.... Michael Tomlinson >From: Jye nigma >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net, itf-taekwondo@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms >Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 15:12:56 -0800 (PST) > >this is terrible in my opinion: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqG0wrtC9w&search=black%20belt > >--------------------------------- >New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, >low rates. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: MSKBEvans@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:10:26 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] knuckle pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I like knuckle pushups for their mental aspects. Overcoming the pain/discomfort, and the technique of staying on your two traditional knuckles. Also when your on your knuckles you can go a bit deeper and get a longer motion. As for the kids not doing good pushups, I like to use my mat stack to give them full range of motion pushups. Hands on the mat stack, feet on the floor. The higher the stack the easier the pushup. I used that for myself to rehab a shoulder injury then realized (little light goes on in the head) that it would be good for my younger students. Bill Evans --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:11:21 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Art V V" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] knuckle pushups Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have practiced doing the knuckle pushups for a long time. We are now doing 4 different positions. Knuckles in two directions, palms and finger tips mostly for black belts. We usually do 25 each way for 100 total. I actually prefer knuckle pushups to the palm pushup mostly due to arthritis in my old hands. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of 18c_blue.gif] --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ko-Online.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:14:58 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Knuckle push-ups & grip excercises ideas Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net [demime could not interpret encoding binary - treating as plain text] My experience with knuckle push-ups is that they are for both conditioning the knuckles/bones in the hand themselves through the pressure ( think heel-bone hard & granny lifting weights to stave off thinning bones) as well as strengthening the wrists for proper punching.  I started doing knuckle push-ups on bricks 28 years ago when I was 11 and I am relieved to say it hasn't affected my dexterity or caused any problems ( knock on brick)  Two drills along that line we do are performing knuckle push-ups on bricks that are on their edge for balance & forearm/wrist strength and the even more difficult task of doing open-handed push-ups on 14" bricks that are standing upright.  The strain of push-ups is secondary to just maintaining balance. My grip strength has improved over the years after I added two 20 foot ropes for climbing in the dojang.  The beginner rope is made of hemp.  The real grip-builder is the adjacent 20 foot nylon rope.  Another all around "fun" excercise is making a one meter X one meter square out of belts etc. that a student must stay inside.  His/her partne in in a similar square with the two partners both holding on to opposite ends of a long pole ( metal for adults, PVC for kids).  The game is to try and push or pull your partner out of their box.  It works on balance and sensitivity as well as really burning up the hands and forearms.   --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:15:06 -0800 (PST) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a pathetic demonstration that shows dangerous, improper and unworkable defense against weapons. We wonder why some people don't take us seriously?!?! Who is this pathetic excuse for a black belt demonstrator? I lost track of the number of times he would have lost his life in the real world where real bullets come from real guns. I was a police officer and I have students who are police officers and an FBI agent, this was a joke. Jye nigma wrote: this is terrible in my opinion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqG0wrtC9w&search=black%20belt --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 02:16:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Good wrist strengthning To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is true! when my dryer was broken, I had to ring out the clothes by hand, and the hardest were the jeans. After doing my clothes, my son's clothes, and towels etc, I felt like I could rip person's face rightr off...lol Jye Richard Tomlinson wrote: Here is another way to strengthen wrists, take a large bath towel, wet thoroughly and ring out as much water as possible. Do this daily, it also strengthens the fore arms and shoulders, back and abs if sone standing over a tub. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:15:13 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Alida" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm glad I wasn't the only one watching going "gut shot," "head shot," "Oh, he'd be dead there, too." Alida -------Original Message------- From: steven riggs Date: 03/26/06 11:13:18 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] video clip: gun disarms This is a pathetic demonstration that shows dangerous, improper and unworkable defense against weapons. We wonder why some people don't take us seriously?!?! Who is this pathetic excuse for a black belt demonstrator? I lost track of the number of times he would have lost his life in the real world where real bullets come from real guns. I was a police officer and I have students who are police officers and an FBI agent, this was a joke. Jye nigma wrote: this is terrible in my opinion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpqG0wrtC9w&search=black%20belt --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.1/292 - Release Date: 3/24/2006 . --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:11:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] disarms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One thing that I have done with students to help them understand the basics of firearm disarms is to use an old BB gun. I cut the trigger guard to save on broken fingers and everyone wears eye protection and head gear. The uniform offers sufficient protection for most of the rest of the body. Fill in the remaining open skin areas with something to help with protection. At least you typically feel it if you get shot, yet not much damage occurs. Oh, and keep your mouth tightly closed. You don't have to do this all that often, but it will really reinforce the need to get out of the line of fire. It is also useful to lube up the gun and hand with a bit of KY or something similar as the shooter's hand and gun just might be wet with blood or sweat. People can still get hurt doing this with a BB gun, so I advise you to go slow and be VERY careful if you do try this. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] disarms To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 09:54:40 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > People can still get hurt doing this with a BB gun, so I advise you to go > slow and be VERY careful if you do try this. P.S. Also be very careful of those standing nearby. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:10:07 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Juan Moreno remembers when the United States was feared Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Waterloo gives sport kick-start By JIM NELSON WCFCourier.com WATERLOO - Juan Moreno remembers when the United States was feared for its TaeKwonDo prowess. In recent years, the American squad has fallen from its lofty status among world powers in the sport. Moreno has taken the matter into his own hands, and his initiative is running smack dab through the Cedar Valley. This year, Moreno announced he was placing five "Peak Performance" TaeKwonDo centers in the United States - Seattle, Minneapolis, Nashville, Tenn., Boston and Waterloo. Moreno calls each center one of his farm clubs to his home training facility in Miami. He hopes to develop athletes who someday will relocate to Miami and eventually compete for the national team. "I want to regain our position in the world," said Moreno, a three-time Olympian and two-time silver medalist. "As a whole, we are not feared. I want that back. I want that same feeling. "I was fortunate because we were feared when I competed. Nobody wanted to see us in their bracket. To be quite honest, it is not the same." After traveling extensively throughout the United States trying to spread his systems and knowledge, Moreno came to a decision there was a better way to develop athletes. He eventually developed the idea for a farm system. "I'm hoping to develop a breeding ground," said Moreno. "We want to concentrate on the youth level, bring them up through juniors and prepare them for the senior level. It's going to be like having five farm teams." Why Waterloo? Over the years Moreno has developed a close relationship with Russ O'Connell, the owner of what was formerly known as Cedar Valley Pro Fitness and Martial Arts in Waterloo. The two first came into contact when one of O'Connell's proteges, Trent Tompkins, won a national 2000 TaeKwonDo championship. "They sent Trent and other athletes down here (Miami) to train," explained Moreno. "Russ started to follow my programs and systems. To be honest, Russ follows my program to a 'T,' more than other coach I work with. "In fact, he has the biggest group of athletes out of any of the other four teams I have. Russ was one of the first people I sought out with this opportunity." O'Connell jumped at the chance to work with Moreno on a permanent basis. "It is not a right we earned," said O'Connell. "It is a privilege. I'm honored that he selected us to be part of his program." O'Connell felt so privileged that, with Moreno's permission, he changed CVPR's name to Peak Performance Training Center of Iowa. The name change went into affect March 1. "Obviously, there is a cost for us to be involved," said O'Connell. "But we get so much in return. Juan will come here three to four times a year, and we can send our athletes to Miami to train with him. "Juan will come and watch how I teach to make sure I'm doing my job as a coach. He will critique me on how I do. Juan is very specific about what he wants to be done. He supplied us with a 90-page booklet. It is pretty in-depth in nature on how to train athletes." Moreno was last in Waterloo March 3-4. O'Connell has 20 of his elite athletes participating in Moreno's program. Part of that group is from Des Moines, athletes from Farrell's U.S. Martial Arts Center. O'Connell is considered the regional coach. While there is a charge to be part of his program, Moreno said that is not his focus. "I could've easily had 15 teams this year," said Moreno. "I was approached at the U.S. Open in Dallas in February by three high-profile teams who want to join. But this is about quality control over quantity. In the future, we may add more teams, but for now I'm happy with the five we have." --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Dave Steffen Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:36:14 -0700 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Science and Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm sorry I missed the beginning of this thread; serves me right for skimming the digests too quickly. :-) The physics of martial arts has been something I've been thinking about for a long time... > Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:51:54 -0800 (PST) > From: Bruce Sims > > "....I will say that using basic kinematics (such as Newton's laws > of motion) is a good way to conceptually understand some of the ways > we cause effective movement in the martial arts. But you can't take > the equations too literally, because the real life gets very > complicated very quickly, and simple applications of basic equations > don't mirror reality well enough. Yes, and amen, brother. While some very basic statements can be made (see below), the human body is a very very complex thing. > In this case, basic physics is best used as a metaphor. Scary, > huh?...." "Metaphor" I don't know about, but a teaching tool certainly. Gen. Choi wrote "power = 1/2 m v^2" years ago, the point being that an increase in velocity does you a lot more good than an increase in mass. > > Thanks, Thomas: > > I have always admired the efforts of folks who would like to > introduce a bit more reasonable and informed approach to MA. Your > post, however, was a well-made "reality sandwich" that did a nice > job of reminding us that science, unlike art, works within some > pretty tight guidelines. You have no idea. Well, OK, maybe you do, I don't know what you do for a living. :-) I can say that grad school increased my standards of scientific proof by orders of magnitude. > Now I am left to wonder if there are scientists who have studied the > Physics behind various activities such as Track-&-Field and Football > (American). Certainly someone must have compiled various equations > for expressing a well-thrown forward pass, or the optimal effort for > negotiating hurdles at speed, yes? Thoughts? Yes indeed. Although AFAIK there's no "governing equation" for a good fastball, there's a lot of good empirical research. Unfortunately empirical data on fastballs doesn't necessarily do us much good for understanding side kicks. I've also come across a few such studies of martial arts strikes, but most of these leave something to be desired on the "good science" front, alas. I'm supposed to be working on one (or several) papers on the issue, but am short on time at the moment. Bug me again in 6 months. :-) > From: "tim walker" > > <<...Their initial equation is: > E=mgh + (1/2)mv² + (1/2)mr²w² ...>> > > You guys PROMISED there wouldn't be any more math! Well, _I_ didn't promise that... :-) I tried to get a "physics and martial arts" email group set up 6 or 7 years ago... didn't work out so well. Partly because it's so hard to convey math in ASCII. The problem is that the physicists (e.g. me) don't understand the issue well enough to explain it without math; "If you need math to explain it, you don't really understand it" being a cherished (if inaccurate) notion in the physics community. For example, the above equation _is_ an accurate statement of an object's energy (given some assumptions), but does it really help? Knowing _just_ the energy of a fist actually tells you very little about what will happen when it hits a board. I suspect that velocity is much more important than the "v^2" would lead you to believe. Consider the difference between a board hit by a fastball and a board hit by a rifle bullet of equal kinetic energy. The fastball breaks the board, maybe even shatters it; the bullet punches a hole in the board and leaves the rest intact. Same kinetic energies, different results; and personally I'd prefer to be hit by the slower of the two... -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Dave Steffen, Ph.D. Wave after wave will flow with the tide IV Dan, ITF And bury the world as it does ITF Scientific Committee Tide after tide will flow and recede tkd-physics@comcast.net Leaving life to go on as it was... - Peart / RUSH "The reason that our people suffer in this way.... is that our ancestors failed to rule wisely". -General Choi, Hong Hi --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest