Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 03:02:15 -0800 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #152 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Bowing and cargo ethos (Jye nigma) 2. RE: Re: bowing, kneeling etc. and religious reservations (michael tomlinson) 3. RE: Kneelling bow (michael tomlinson) 4. RE: Going Blank (michael tomlinson) 5. RE: Spacy Sandy (michael tomlinson) 6. Re: Gun Question (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: Re: bowing, kneeling etc. and religious reservations (jakskru) 8. Black-belt granny learns tae kwon do late in life (Ray Terry) 9. Re: going blank (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 10. Re: Gun Question (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 11. Why Do We Bow? (Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:22:14 -0800 (PST) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bowing and cargo ethos To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net well we can pick this topic apart but the fact of the matter is when one chooses to learn an activity from a foreign culture, they need to do do their homework and find out what certain things mean or come from. Another spin on this type of topic is calling an instructor master...lol. Jye sidtkd@aol.com wrote: For me personally, I learned a long time ago that one of the most boorish things to attempt to do is to import ones ethos, ways of doing social business or cultural values on anyone else. The notion of bowing is most acceptable to me because there are so many germs carried on the human hand its often best not to make that contact. But kneeling bow sticks in my craw. I would never try to high five someone if I were in Korea and kneeling before a person will never happen for me! Why I wonder would anyone expect something like that from a person in a country not their own??? To att6empt to do that is known as "importing cargo ethos". Sid Rubinfeld _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for low, low rates. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re: bowing, kneeling etc. and religious reservations Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:30:28 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To each his own and no offense meant here but if bowing and kneeling are so important to you that you are at a loss to decide whether or not to do that because it might offend or be against your religious beliefs????? Well I personally think maybe you should learn to think more for yourself and quit worrying about something that insignificant.... I am of the impression of the prior opinion....worrying about bowing and kneeling but not worried about punching someone in the throat or kicking someone in the groin.....ok... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kneelling bow Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:38:34 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I feel you there...check this out...I once had an adult Korean man as a student that was adopted at birth and was a devout Christian he said....after the second class he said he would have to quit because the end of the class cool down meditation was against his beliefs and he was afraid it would let the devil into his heart!!!! I said bye bye....no offense but IMHO if you are that mentally rigid and worried about some belief system that governs your life.....you need more help than I can offer or have patience to deal with.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Bob Banham" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Kneelling bow >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:45:32 +0100 > >I have to admit I find this a very strange topic but here goes... > >Like Jere I too have found Muslims unwilling to bow to me, each other or >anything else but Allah. But these were English converts and strangely >their >Middle Eastern counterparts had no such issues. Apart from the people >writing >on the digest, I have not encountered it among any other faith anywhere in >the >world. Perhaps it is a question of confidence in one's faith. Like Kevin, I >will not teach anyone who refuses to offer me that simple and reciprocated >courtesy. > >Bob >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Going Blank Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:39:36 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net did that on my first date...at the drive in!!!! LOL Michael Tomlinson >From: "Richard Tomlinson" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Going Blank >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:09:43 -0500 > >Anyone ever when either competing in a forms competition or doing a >demonstration, ever go completely blank at the beginning of such... but >really, has anyone just gone blank at a time where you know before what to >do, >are comfortable, but once there,at the event, total blank mind space.... >sandy >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Spacy Sandy Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:43:24 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm telling you that purple spandex is the ticket,,, and it feels sooooooooo good against my Hapkido body!!!! When in doubt,, put it on and you'll feel like Bruce Lee and Angela Mao's illegitamate kung fu baby.... Michael Tomlinson >From: "Gordon" >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Spacy Sandy >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:32:41 -0600 > >All the time. I think it's trying to remember everything. -Not just the >pattern, but how much time you have, who's up next, do they know they're >next, did they bring their weapon, did I buy enough wood, can't forget to >introduce/thank everybody. and so on. Like in the recent movie: The Last >Samurai, I wish I could have: "No mind." at demos as well as in battle. >Makes me think I would go blank in battle. Then, I would think of purple >spandex, clear my mind and kick as.. uh, tail. :-) > >Gordon Okerstrom >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gun Question Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:45:42 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I was gonna answer this but that is the perfect response big dog.....that is EXACTLY the truth IMHO... Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Gun Question >Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 14:47:03 -0800 (PST) > > > If a gun goes off while you're holding it, is there any other risk >besides the > > bullet? Does the barrel get too hot to hold? > >After only a round or two? No. > > > Are there little sparks that can get in your eyes or anything? > >Maybe. Depends. > > > Or have I been watching too many crime shows? > >Yes. :) > >Bottom line... Would you rather have a warm hand and maybe a blasted >ear drum and a sore eye or a bullet in your head? > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: bowing, kneeling etc. and religious reservations Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 20:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net besides politics and finances, religion should not be brought up unless you really want to end up in a frustrating conversation or a fight when the people talking are not in agreement...so maybe we all should keep our religious beliefs off this forum...i dont think this is the place for its inclusion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jye nigma" To: Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2006 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: bowing, kneeling etc. and religious reservations > Good post. However, one thing I'd like to add is that it's up to each christian to decide if they should even participate in something that they would see go against their religion or spirituality. Me personally, I don't even train in things which goes against my belief like honoring various spirits. > > Jye --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:54:09 -0800 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Black-belt granny learns tae kwon do late in life Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The 71-year-old overcame initial struggles in the sport in her quest to stay fit Thursday, March 30, 2006 MICHELLE MANDEL The Oregonian BETHANY -- Mija Kim doesn't like taking medications or gaining weight. So to stay healthy, she signed up for tae kwon do. Except Kim's not your typical student tackling a board-breaking martial art. She's 71. Most remarkable: Kim recently earned a black belt. "Anybody can do it," says Kim, who moved from South Korea to Bethany 21/2 years ago. "I wanted to test myself, to see if it was possible. And I'm doing it." Don't consider her superhuman, she says. When she started in 2004, Kim says she ached before, during and after every lesson. "For about four months, I couldn't even walk." But Kim kept going, driven to prove herself. It took courage: Most of her classmates were youngsters. The more she exercised, though, the stronger Kim became. Tae kwon do, she says, made her "bones and muscles move different." Body, mind and soul meshed in harmony. Kim studies several times a week at the U.S. West Coast Taekwondo Association's dojang in Bethany Village. She walks to class from home, where she lives with her 46-year-old daughter, Christine Rhee, and her 13-year-old granddaughter, Louise Sohn. Rhee also has a black belt. The hardest part of training, Kim says, was learning to kick. In South Korea, she was a professor emeritus in English literature at Hankuk University of Foreign Studies in Seoul. Books, not kicks, dominated her days. "I had never kicked in my life," she says, adding that yoga and stretching help her break a 6-inch board with an ax kick. Kicking, punching and blocking, Kim says, give her energy, or ki, that vibrates through her 5-foot, 100-pound body. "It renews every tissue," she says. The March day when she earned her black belt, Kim says she was nervous but determined, throughout the three-hour test. Later she celebrated with the family of another black belt recipient, and received -- as a gift -- a booklet filled with pictures of that day's effort. All of this has inspired Kim to write a book titled, "A Perfect Posture: Perfect Health." She works on it in between graduate studies at Portland State University. She also teaches Korean folklore and culture at the university, where she is a visiting professor. Kim's tae kwon do instructor, Master George Hristescu, says his eldest student continually amazes him. The closest students to her are in their 50s. "She doesn't give up," Hristescu says. "I know it was hard for her in the beginning, but she just kept going." And Kim isn't quitting now. She wants to hone her powerhouse skills. Not that she'd use them on an attacker. "I suppose I could use my skills," she says. "But I would run. "Besides, who would attack an old Asian lady?" --__--__-- Message: 9 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:15:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: going blank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Anyone ever when either competing in a forms competition or doing a demonstration, ever go completely blank at the beginning of such... but really, has anyone just gone blank at a time where you know before what to do, are comfortable, but once there,at the event, total blank mind space.... sandy -------------------------------- lol...i think if someone here _hasnt_ gone blank at some point then somethings wrong with them ;). its common. happens to everyone. teaches one to work on focus as well as experiencing a bit o'humility. dont take yourself too seriously :) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 10 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:17:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gun Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If a gun goes off while you're holding it, is there any other risk besides the bullet? Does the barrel get too hot to hold? Are there little sparks that can get in your eyes or anything? Or have I been watching too many crime shows? Can someone who regularly fires a real gun let me know? Thanks, Jeremy -------------------------- hot...yep...and powder burns, too. still, the adrenaline should carry you through and it would certainly be less painful than the alternative ;) take care, melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy _www.cjmaa.com_ (http://www.cjmaa.com/) 1.573.673.2769 Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply _www.cjmas.com_ (http://www.cjmas.com/) 1.877.847.4072 --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Hapkidoman5@wmconnect.com Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 22:20:16 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Why Do We Bow? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, from my studies, it started with Buddhism or they adopted it from the Hindu either way. I found that the act of bowing is NOT like a handshake but, more as a way of subordination to one's Buddha nature. More to the point you bow to the Buddha inside, now days we just say it's a sign of respect to hide it's religious connotation's. K Carter --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest