Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:01:52 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #161 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Cane techniques (michael tomlinson) 2. Cloudy History (rwood) 3. Re: Cloudy History (Ray) 4. NKMAA SEMINAR - Rochester, MN (Fred Gommels) 5. Re:Cane (aburrese@aol.com) 6. RE: Re:Cane (Erik Brann) 7. Re: Cane Techniques (Brooke Thomas) 8. Re: Cloudy History (Joseph Cheavens) 9. Re Re Cane Masters (Brooke Thomas) 10. RE: Cloudy History (PETER.MCDONALDSMITH@london-fire.gov.uk) 11. Re: Cloudy History (Ray) 12. New Black Belt Traditions (Gordon) 13. Re: Do-Bok Tops (Manuel Maldonado) 14. Re: Cloudy History (Joseph Cheavens) 15. Re: Cloudy History (Ray) 16. 2006 SportAccord Conference, Exhibition Start (Ray Terry) 17. Re: Cloudy History (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cane techniques Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:24:50 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I can actuallly hear Ji's voice in my head saying that as I read your post!!! Too cool.... Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cane techniques >Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 21:15:40 -0700 (PDT) > > > The seven basic cane strikes of Sin Moo are very good for this >stuff...Doju > > Nim Ji always says...start with your hand on the top of the cane just >like > > when you are walking... and be able to stike from there....they are very > > good strikes...all Sin Moo cane techniques are done from a basic walking > > stance with your weight on the cane just like when you are walking with > > it... > >Over and over and over again... "Hit the end of my cane!", he would say, >as we practiced the cane twirl. Finally got to where I could do it very >consistently. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "rwood" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 07:45:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Terry, Are you saying that TKD is not a viable from of self defense or that the history is just a little to cloudy to get a good read on where it came from? The family tree for the TKD I study runs from Kong Soo, which from my reading, research, and interviews indicates is direct derivative of Okinawan Karate. No disrespect intended but the history of HapKiDo is a little cloudy as well. IHS, Rob He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 13:18 This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:52:22 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Are you saying that TKD is not a viable from of self defense > or that the history is just a little to cloudy to get a good > read on where it came from? Neither. The history of TKD is actually fairly well documented. It is just that many would rather believe the fairy tale version. http://martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Fred Gommels" To: "DOJANG DIGEST" Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:22:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] NKMAA SEMINAR - Rochester, MN Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc., Rochester, MN www.mafci.com was honored to host a NKMAA HKD-KongShinBup martial arts seminar on the weekend of April 1. GM Timmerman, assisted by Master Janisse, and PSN Demanaous, did an outstanding job as the seminar instructors. Thank you so much for the fine seminar. I have had many people express their appreciation to me for hosting this event. They enjoyed the practicality of the techniques taught, the variety, the quality of your teaching, and your friendly manner of conveying the material. We so look forward to having you back again. I wish you well in your Korea tour. Sincerely, Fred Gommels - Director Fredrick J. Gommels Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. Korea / USA Simmudo Association 2849 S. Broadway Rochester MN 55904 www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:32:13 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Cane Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was doing a demo at a school a few years back, and after doing a couple of the fancier cane techniques, one of the students in attendance asked how an old person would be able to do that. (Smart kid) I told him that Hapkido had the fancy show techniques, but also more practical techniques and demonstrated a couple simple strikes with the cane. It's fun to learn and practice the fancy stuff, but it is the simple practical techniques that will save your butt in a real situation. Regardig the umbrella that tim posted, Paladin and I have already discussed using one of those in my upcoming cane video with them. Alain www.burrese.com For Your Safety - For Your Success --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Erik Brann" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Re:Cane Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:08:01 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Canes, eh? Anyone in the market for a handcrafted native Maine hardwood cane? I have access to various kinds of woods and finishes and have a steam box for bending the cane. I can even do laminated woods. -----Original Message----- From: aburrese@aol.com [mailto:aburrese@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:32 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Cane I was doing a demo at a school a few years back, and after doing a couple of the fancier cane techniques, one of the students in attendance asked how an old person would be able to do that. (Smart kid) I told him that Hapkido had the fancy show techniques, but also more practical techniques and demonstrated a couple simple strikes with the cane. It's fun to learn and practice the fancy stuff, but it is the simple practical techniques that will save your butt in a real situation. Regardig the umbrella that tim posted, Paladin and I have already discussed using one of those in my upcoming cane video with them. Alain www.burrese.com For Your Safety - For Your Success _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:38:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Cane Techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We too do the seven basic strikes. In addition, Master Faribroz created a cane form many years ago that includes all seven basic strikes in it. It's a very cool looking form. Any body else do cane forms? -Brooke Hapkido Blend --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, thats a pretty good article.  Have you read Dakin Burdick's article or the one by Robert Dorhenwend?  Too bad the WTF website has the fairy tale version. Did anyone else catch the part about Yoon Byung-in missing the most of his left pinky? Anyone else think, "yakuza"?  Its interesting that the YMCA where Yoon founded his school was in Chongno. That was one of the most hotly contested pieces of turf amongst kkang'ae during the late '20s and early '30s. By the mid '30s, it was under the control of a gang run by Kim Du-han, who later formed the Dae Han Youth Corps after Liberation. Also, its interesting to note Hwang Kee's claim that he learned jujitsu while working for the Southern Manchurian Railway, as the SMR had close ties to the Kokuryukai and SMR dojos were often a front for for Kokuryukai operatives. That Hwang Kee also used the railroads to set up his own dojangs would seem to support his contention that he'd studied at SMR dojos. It should also be noted that the neighborhood around Seoul Station was one of the hubs of kkanp'ae activety in Seoul during the Colonial Period.   Won Sik-kang and Kyong Myong-lee do treat the whole issue of collaboration with the Japanese in an interesting fashion with regards to Lee Won-kuk by stating that his association with the Korean National Police distanced himself from these allegations. I say its interesting because the general public viewed the KNP itself to be a hotbed of Japanese collaborators, since they had almost all worked under the Japanese Government General's police force. A good read on this subject is Cheong Sung-hwa's "The Politics of Anti-Japanese Sentiment in Korea." Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Ray Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Date:  Thu, 6 Apr 2006 06:52:22 -0700 (PDT) > > Are you saying that TKD is not a viable from of self defense > > or that the history is just a little to cloudy to get a good > > read on where it came from? > >Neither. > >The history of TKD is actually fairly well documented.  It is just that >many would rather believe the fairy tale version. > >http://martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Brooke Thomas To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re Re Cane Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Tomlinson- Thanks for the note...although it DID take me a long time to get the concept through my thick skull. Ohhh, the money we new BBs spent along the path. Anybody else rush out and buy a $120+ pure silk embroidered belt with the glare of a neon rope around your waist? I wore it once, and promptly went and bought the cheapest cotten BB the supply store offered. Also, we had BBs get martial arts tattoos to chrisen the event. OK, what have you guys seen done by your schools new BBs? Brooke,, very true...sounds like you've learned some things along the way...Hapki... Michael Tomlinson --__--__-- Message: 10 Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:52:28 +0100 From: To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I love fairy tales -----Original Message----- From: Ray [mailto:rterry@idiom.com] Sent: 06 April 2006 14:52 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History > Are you saying that TKD is not a viable from of self defense > or that the history is just a little to cloudy to get a good > read on where it came from? Neither. The history of TKD is actually fairly well documented. It is just that many would rather believe the fairy tale version. http://martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.ht ml Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang **************************************************************************** SMOKE ALARMS SAVE LIVES Go to London Fire at www.london-fire.gov.uk/firesafety This email is confidential to the addressee only. If you do not believe that you are the intended addressee, do not use, pass on or copy it in any way. If you have received it in error, please delete it immediately and telephone the supplied number, reversing the charges if necessary. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Ray, thats a pretty good article.  Have you read Dakin Burdick's article > or the one by Robert Dorhenwend?  Too bad the WTF website has the fairy > tale version. Dakin who??? :) I blame Dakin for being the first to burst the KMA history bubble for a great many of us... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:53:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] New Black Belt Traditions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I attended a Moo Duk Kwan school where the master instructor tied the new black belt on the student. At the formal banquet, wearing a 3-piece suit (mandatory), the student was told that he couldn't take it off for a week. They were to eat, sleep, work, shower, whatever, with the same knot tied from the instructor around their waist. I attended a Ji Do Kwan school where an "experienced belt" (one worn by another black belt years ago) was tied on the student at the awards ceremony. This was usually a tattered old belt that looked pretty cool to a new black belt student. It was to be used in class until they learned their fist pattern. Six months later, during an exchange ceremony, they would then receive their own embroidered belt. The "experienced" belt was returned, honoring the senior. The junior had to say some nice things about his senior during the ceremony. I recently attended a local school's awards ceremony, where the chief instructor tossed the black belt across the room to the student. Well, it was only about 10 or 12 feet. Still, it left me feeling like it was disrespectful. Gordon Okerstrom --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Manuel Maldonado" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:57:30 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Do-Bok Tops Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have had the same problems before...... Im of a bigger build now.. age I guess lol... My wife actually makes my Do-Boks she recently made one for me out of Denim (blue Jean material) and it is nice....But I'll have to agree the Hap Ki Do Uniform is made bigger longer ect... I have some of thease I bought from Sang Moo Sa in California the number is 1 800 346-3116 or on the web at www.sangmoosa.com as a matter of fact they even "custom" make uniforms...also their address is 7120 Alondra Blvd Paramount CA 90723. ..... and NO I DONT WORK FOR THEM lol just enjoyed their service and customer appreciation. P.S. please all go to the ITF website under galleries and look at a drawing I did on Master Rivera I drew it on paint let me know what yall think www.itf-information.com it should be like Feb or March gallery thanx again Manuel Maldonado --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 15:56:02 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I had someone burst my bubble back in the mid '90s with some e-mails from a mail group like this that was hosted by Chalmers Johnson. There was a pretty lively debate about the true origins of KMA vs the "official" history. That debate also discussed the associations between gangsters and martial arts in the Colonial Period and the 1940s after Liberation. One of my Korean professors told me that he kind of regretted not learning any MA, but that when he was a teenager, MA were referred to as "kkangp'ae training" and were looked at askance by most Koreans until after the Korean War. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Ray Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History Date:  Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:51:12 -0700 (PDT) > > Ray, thats a pretty good article.  Have you read Dakin Burdick's article > > or the one by Robert Dorhenwend?  Too bad the WTF website has the fairy > > tale version. > >Dakin who???   :) > >I blame Dakin for being the first to burst the KMA history bubble for >a great many of us... > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:53:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Did anyone else catch the part about Yoon Byung-in missing the most of > his left pinky? Anyone else think, "yakuza"? -If- I recall my conversation with Dr. Kimm correctly and -if- he is right, Yoon Byung In wasn't killed during the Korean War and wasn't captured, but went North on his own. He remained there (of course, what choice would he have had by then) and taught his JuAnPa KwonBup for many years. Assuming this is accurate, I doubt he would have been Yakuza. ??? One thing we do know about Yoon Byung In is that he was senior in rank, and perhaps ability, to all the other kwan founders. This could have had something to do with the North encouraging him in their direction. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 16 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:22:00 -0700 From: "Ray Terry" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] 2006 SportAccord Conference, Exhibition Start Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net SEOUL --- As part of the highlights of the ongoing SportAccord 2006, a conference and an exhibition started on April 5, 2006 in Seoul, drawing a great interest from participants in the international sports convention. The two-day conference, which continues until April 6 on the second floor of the Grand InterContinental Hotel, features two break-out streams; "Staging a Successful Major Event" and "Financing and Promoting a Sport." Mr. Jin-ryong Yoo, vice minister of culture and tourism of Korea, delivered a congratulatory speech during the opening ceremony of the conference. Yoo's speech was followed by congratulatory remarks by Mr. Hein Verbruggen, chairman of SportAccord. The plenary panel sessions are moderated by Rick Burton, commissioner of the National Basketball League. The conference features an outstanding line-up of more than 60 speakers, including past and future Olympic host cities, international sports federations and leading media and marketing organizations. "The subjects of the conference are aimed to appeal to both sports federations, event-hosting cities and their commercial partners. There will also be cross-topic interviews of the day," said Ms. Anna Hellman, general manager of SportAccord. On the same floor of the Grand InterContinental Hotel, an exhibition kicked off for a three-day run, drawing about 70 exhibitors representing cities, sports federations and commercial organizations. Among the exhibitors are ICE in Sports and the Contemporary Group, the two gold sponsors of the 2006 Seoul SportAccord. There are seven silver sponsors, including the city of Chuncheon and Sydney Olympic Park, and another seven bronze sponsors such as FIBA and Narrowstep. --__--__-- Message: 17 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Cloudy History To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 19:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I had someone burst my bubble back in the mid '90s with some e-mails... I think Dakin burst mine in the mid to late 1980s on rec.martial-arts. Does that timeframe sound about right, Dakin? Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest