Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:01:12 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #166 - 17 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Hangul (J R Hilland) 2. RE: Bursting Ray's bubble (Rick Clark) 3. Response to two topics: Korean Language (cd and book) & Korean churches (Kay Ethier-Above and Beyond Language Learning) 4. Stabbing in Missoula (aburrese@aol.com) 5. Re: 10th dan (sidtkd@aol.com) 6. Gangsters and MA (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. KOREAN LANGUAGE LEARNING RESOURCES (Fred Gommels) 8. Folding mats (Robert Martin) 9. question (steve slocum) 10. RE: question (Joseph Cheavens) 11. RE: Bursting Ray's Bubble (Joseph Cheavens) 12. RE: Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts (Joseph Cheavens) 13. RE: Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts (Rick Clark) 14. What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo (Amcreva Drogovah) 15. Re: What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J R Hilland" To: Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:06:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hangul Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>> Although my Korean has a Texas accent, it turns out my wife has a natural books-on-tapes recorded voice and I have a recording studio (re: www.jrhilland.com). We will have the dojang specific terminology audio CD finished in a few weeks. It will be available as a free MP3 download at http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/terminology_2.htm. It started because a student brought in a tape recorder a while back and I converted the audio clips to MP3. Dan, if you send me an email (hapkido@wah.midco.net), I will send you these audio files to get you started while we are finishing the CD. A lot of communities offer classes in foreign languages. We have offered one in Hangul for years, free and open to the public. This past year, I taught the class at the local radio station here in Fargo (most of the radio stations are in one building). Dan, check with some of the local dojang, you never know. A good link for grammar is at http://www.zkorean.com/reference/Category:Grammar_Lessons. The website is a good resource and includes audio files. Many of the pages are linked at the bottom of http://www.hapkidoselfdefense.com/hangul.htm. Jere R. Hilland www.rrhapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:30:48 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Bursting Ray's bubble To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, >From: Burdick, Dakin Robert [mailto:burdickd@indiana.edu] >I remember chatting back then - but my first paper went up in 1990. And the hate mail followed soon after. Thank goodness >Rick Clark and Herb Perez published soon after -- that took the heat off me! :) > >Yours in the arts, > >Dakin I had been yakking about this for quite some time - but not done much in the area of publication. The internet gave many of us a way to get our ideas out, other than the magazines. The magazines have a limited amount of pages they can publish and they have a market they need to have the articles written to a particular demographic to sell the magazines. So thank god for the internet :-) Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Kay Ethier-Above and Beyond Language Learning" To: Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:31:36 -0400 Organization: Above and Beyond Language Learning Inc. Subject: [The_Dojang] Response to two topics: Korean Language (cd and book) & Korean churches Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi everyone: I'm curious about Frank's suggestion (included below). The church we attend holds English services in the a.m. and Korean in the p.m., and I've wondered how welcomed my kids and I would be in staying for the service or approaching the pastor about someone who teaches Korean. I don't want to say the wrong think and offend someone there. So far we speak mostly "karate Korean" and a bit of "hello/how are you/dining/asking directions" kind of terms -- we've learned a lot from Pimsleur's Korean audio CDs (very good!). -----Original Message----- From: Frank Clay [mailto:frankclay@msn.com] One of the things that was suggested to me, was to find a Korean church. Many times they offer classes to their youths that were born here. That helps to maintain their culture. If you find the right one, they will accept you in. ============================================================================ =========== On a separate topic, I did not see Dan's original post, but I see the part of it below in Master Kluzek's message (included below). Sorry if this seems a marketing-ish. I had similar issues when my children started MA. After searching and not finding an audio CD to help them learn what the words were and how to pronounce them, I got frustrated. We tried making some signs and recordings with a red belt in our do jang at first. After several months of struggling, I put my background to use (I work in publishing as my real job). Using some contacts I had and a local recording studio, I was able to locate and work with several masters to create an audio CD and book set that taught the terms we needed in class. This is a professionally published and professionally recorded product. The audio CD lets you listen to the terms (English TSD grandmaster says the English, and a Korean TKD/Hapkido master says the Korean). The companion book includes all the track's words, in English and Hangul with pronunciations, plus some other words not on the CD. The book includes a tutorial on the basics of Hangul (written by a native speaker). Info on the CD and book set is online at http://www.aboveandbeyondlearning.com/product_details.php?prod_id=1 . It is also available on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0977122204 and even on this list's website under the rated books http://www.pasource.com/dojang/top10rate.asp . -----Original Message----- From: Master Erik Kluzek Dan asks... I would like to improve my ability to speak Korean in class there is always a gap between how we are taught in written word and how a Korean speaks phonetically. I wonder if you have happened upon a basic instruction DVD/CD that I could use. Mostly interested in basic commands for class to start, then maybe working my way up to conversational Korean. I would also like a work set on written language as well. Thank you, Kay (8th gup, Tang Soo Do) -------------------------------------- Kay Ethier Above and Beyond Language Learning Inc. 1.919.363.9361 http://www.aboveandbeyondlearning.com -------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:03:36 -0400 From: aburrese@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Stabbing in Missoula Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I heard a report on the radio this morning that a convenience store clerk was stabbed in the abdomen when he attempted to stop two individuals from steeling some beer Saturday night here in Missoula. The store clerk is doing okay in the hospital. This gives us a couple of things to think about. First, the guy is lucky that he is okay. Many people have died of knife wounds. You have to determine if some beer is worth getting stabbed, and possibly killed over. I'm not saying we turn into a bunch of wimps and let anyone get away with whatever, but I am saying that ending up in the hospital or morgue over some beer might not fit into most people's plans. What you fight over is your decision, make sure it is the right one, and one you can live or die with. Second, if you do make the decision to fight or stop someone in this type of situation, it would behoove you to have some training and some sort of weapon. One against two is bad enough, but when the two are also armed... I'm not advocating a bunch of armed vigilantes either, but when the odds are against you, you need to do something to even them. Third, remember the old principle that we have to know our strengths and weaknesses and those of our opponent. There is a good chance the clerk did not know the robber was armed until he felt the knife enter his stomach. Many people have walked into an encounter not knowing their opponent was armed until too late. Too be on the safe side, it is not a bad idea to always assume your opponent is armed and better than you. That will help reduce the mistakes that often come with overconfidence. It will also help you avoid walking into 'a knife in the guts.' The last point I'll make here is that the best course of action in a situation like this would have been to notice everything possible about the two robbers so he could have been a good witness for the police. A store clerk is not paid enough, and does not have the training and equipment to apprehend two armed robbers, especially over a little beer. Of course, if the robbers intended to hurt, rape, kill the clerk or patrons, the reaction necessary would be different. That goes back to deciding what is worth fighting, and possibly dying, over. We could look at further lessons this incident lends itself to, and we could analyze the lessons above even more, but this is enough to think about today. This kind of incident happens all the time, albeit not that often in Missoula, Montana. It just shows that no matter who you are, or where you are, you need to adhere to awareness principles and it can benefit anyone to learn basic self-defense measures for those instances when you must attack back. Yours in Training, Alain http://www.burrese.com/attackbackblog.html www.burrese.com For Your Safety - For Your Success --__--__-- Message: 5 From: sidtkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:21:51 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 10th dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray, The kukkiwon website lists 5 persons having 10th dan. They didn't disclose who they are although Sanrocci(Sp?) is one of them. Sincerely, \ Sid Rubinfeld --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:47:02 -0400 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Gangsters and MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joseph Cheavens wrote: >The reason that I'm interested in martial arts during this period (aside from my interest in the origins of KMA) is because of the well documented role of martial arts in right-wing gangs such as the Genyosha and Kokuryukai, the fairly well documented role of martial arts amongst 1930s and '40s kkangp'ae Interesting stuff Joseph! >(e.g. Kim Du-han was reputed to have been very skilfull at taekyon and Hwang Kee states in one of his books that he was inspired in part by watching gangster fight using taekyon) Actually, Duk-Ki Song (the leading t'aekkyeon master after the Japanese occupation) mentioned that t'aekkyeon was essentially the art of thugs before its modernization, in an interview he did. I can't remember who did the interview, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Robert Young. Robert also has an article on the history of t'aekkyeon in the back issues of the Journal of Asian Martial Arts that you may want to track down. Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick dakinburdick@yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Fred Gommels" To: "DOJANG DIGEST" Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:54:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] KOREAN LANGUAGE LEARNING RESOURCES Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net KOREAN LANGUAGE LEARNING RESOURCES I have been studying the language for seven years with a Korean language instructor, text books, and audio cassettes. Here are some other resources to consider if you do not have access to a Korean language instructor. Also, a Google search will give you numerous other options. Korean Language Resource www.rosettastone.com HP Handheld Devices - iPAQ & Calculators http://www.hp.com/country/us/en/prodserv/handheld.html H&H Korea2Go Talking Phrase Book http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=10917 Martial Art Terminology http://www.mafci.com/terminology/ Fredrick J. Gommels Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. Korea / USA Simmudo Association 2849 S. Broadway Rochester MN 55904 www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: 11 Apr 2006 19:16:10 -0700 From: "Robert Martin" To: , , Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:15:33 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Folding mats Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings! We are looking for some folding mats to be used in falling/throwing training. It seem like there are a zillion manufactures out there. We want the 6' x 12' x 1 3/8" or 2" kind that fold down to 2' x 6'. Of course we don't have a lot of money to spend. We are a 501(c)(3) non-profit corporation so if anyone wants a nice tax deduction let me know. Anyone have suggestions? Robert Martin www.maestastkd.com -- ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 5466 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now! --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:26:58 -0700 (PDT) From: steve slocum To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hello all. :) i'm a 29 yr old male interested in studying a Korean form of martial arts. My main concern is that due to a physical handicap. my hamstrings are extremely tight therefore my kicking would be low. i would like to study a form that doesnt focus so much on high kicks. i've heard that through strenuous and long term stretching. my hamstrings would get better, but for the time being i'd like to study a form more aimed at upper body, with some to little kicking required. any help or info would be greatly appreciated. thank you. --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] question Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:48:00 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd say Hapkido would be your best bet as far as KMA. HKD still has some high kicks, but they don't emhasize kicking as much as TKD and I'm sure the instructor would take your condition into account. You could also look at some of the Japanese and Okinawan martial arts. Okinawan Karate does not have many high kicks and focuses mostly on using the hands for striking. Jujitsu, Judo and Aikido don't have many, if any, kicks. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  steve slocum Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  [The_Dojang] question Date:  Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:26:58 -0700 (PDT) >hello all. :) i'm a 29 yr old male interested in studying a Korean form of martial arts. >   My main concern is that due to a physical handicap. my hamstrings are extremely tight therefore my kicking would be low. i would like to study a form that doesnt focus so much on high kicks. i've heard that through strenuous and long term stretching. my hamstrings would get better, but for the time being i'd like to study a form more aimed at upper body, with some to little kicking required. any help or info would be greatly appreciated. thank you. > > >--------------------------------- >New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:59:37 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Bursting Ray's Bubble Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin: I found a copy of your article on the Web. Interesting stuff.http://ryanshroyer.tripod.com/dakin_burdick.html As for my dissertation, I'll be defending in May, so I'm on a really tight timeline as far as my revisions. I'm contemplating publishing it online once I submit the final draft to Grad Division, as that would be easier to do than the traditional publishing route. As you know, its pretty much a requirement to get your foot in the door to teach at the college level to have published.  Regards,Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:23:04 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin: In your article, you mention that the Japanese banned the practice of any fighting arts in 1909. Do you have any documentation of this, or is this what one of your sources told you in an interview?  The reason I ask is because I've scoured the records of the Government General of Chosen and have not been able to find a copy of this order. I have heard this claim made before, but I have been unable to find any documentation. If there is documentation of this order, I'd really like to know, as it would be great information for my dissertation. So far, though, the only sources I've found are claims made by KMA instructors, who would either have been too young to remember anything from 1909 or hadn't even been born yet. I have found that the memories of Koreans that lived through Japanese occupation tends to be shaped by the events and policies of the '30s and '40s, since this is when most of them grew up. As such, some of the "common knowledge" that is passed around about the Colonial Period is somewhat innacurate or only accurate with regards to the latter third of the Colonial Period. Two prominent examples of this are the supposed seizures of land by the Japanese and the forced recruitment into Japanese industries. In the case of the former, the large scale transfer of land ownership from Korean to Japanese hands didn't really begin until the '30s and was largely the result of ecomic policies and circumstances, rather than the government conspiracy that most Koreans portray it as. In the case of labor recruitment, forced recruitment didn't really start until 1939 and even then the number of voluntary labor recruits surpassed slave labor until fairly late in the war.  As for the study of Kendo and Judo, I believe that was introduced into the Korean public school curriculum after 1920 as part of Saigo's reforms.  Not wanting to offend. Just a few points.  RegardsJoe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:45:19 -0500 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Joseph, Don Dragger in his book Asian Martial Arts (think that's the name) stated that Judo, Kendo, and Juken jitsu were the only arts allowed to be taught and they were taught in the schools. Dragger is regarded as a rather good source - he had his main backgound in Judo and Japanese arts. I don't think he would be in the camp of Korean revisionist history. Rick Clark "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde www.ao-denkou-kai.org >From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] > >Dakin: In your article, you mention that the Japanese banned >the practice of any fighting arts in 1909. Do you have any >documentation of this, or is this what one of your sources >told you in an interview?  --__--__-- Message: 14 From: "Amcreva Drogovah" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:21:18 -0300 Subject: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have done some amount of research on this subject and have yet to figure out what the profound difference between Ji Do Kwan and Chung Do Kwan Taekwondo is. I would like to know if anyone has any responce to this. I am deeply engaged in Taekwondo history. However, I have been looking more into the ITF side then the WTF side. Also, I have not been looking as hard at the Kwans it was created from. The internet can be a useful tool, but you cannot always trust what you see. However, Hopefully someone here has some knowledge on this topic. Can anyone enlighten me? What is the difference between Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:14:06 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I have done some amount of research on this subject and have yet to > figure out what the profound difference between Ji Do Kwan and Chung Do > Kwan Taekwondo is. I would like to know if anyone has any responce to > this. I am deeply engaged in Taekwondo history. However, I have been > looking more into the ITF side then the WTF side. Also, I have not been > looking as hard at the Kwans it was created from. The internet can be a > useful tool, but you cannot always trust what you see. However, Hopefully > someone here has some knowledge on this topic. Can anyone enlighten me? > What is the difference between Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo? You are looking at the ITF side for the diff between the JiDo Kwan TKD and the Chung Do Kwan TKD? That just doesn't compute... Both those kwans are part of Kukki-TKD. So essentially -today- there is no difference in the Taekwondo of the two. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest