Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:30:21 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #167 - 16 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korea Trip (Thomas Gordon) 2. Korean From Koreans (rwood) 3. Re: NKMAA SEMINAR - Rochester, MN (Jeremy Anderson) 4. Re: question (Jeremy Anderson) 5. Re: question (steven riggs) 6. We need more commercials like this. (John Nowicki) 7. Re: What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo (Joseph Cheavens) 8. RE: We need more commercials like this. (Joseph Cheavens) 9. RE: Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts (Joseph Cheavens) 10. Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? (Erik Kluzek) 11. RE: Some further thoughts on the Japanese Police System (Joseph Cheavens) 12. Re: Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? (jakskru) 13. RE: Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? (Joseph Cheavens) 14. Re: What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji (Ray) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Thomas Gordon" To: Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:59:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korea Trip Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well gang, it's about time for us to head out for Korea. For those NKMAA folks flying out of Detroit, we'll see ya in about 10 hours. I know a few of you will be in our area this weekend with the Destin, FL tournament. Sorry we can't meet - perhaps next time. Moderators, computer is running while I'm away so no worries about email. Hope everyone plays nice. Be back in about 10 days. For those of you prayin types, please pray for safe passage. Warm regards, Thomas Gordon Florida --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "rwood" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:00:32 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean From Koreans Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ma’am, If you are interested in learning Korean and have the people are present to teach I say ask. The worst they can say is “no”. When my family and I were stationed in Europe, we learned to local customs, tried to learn the language (my wife could already speak French), and basically made friends. A sincere desire to learn Koreans, from Koreans, is an opportunity not to pass up and I feel will be met with enthusiasm from all sides. IHS, Rob He who ignores disciple comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds correction is honored. Proverbs 13:18 This electronic communication is from Moberly Public Schools, and is confidential, privileged, and intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, unauthorized disclosure, distribution, or use of the contents of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the CIS Department immediately at the following e-mail address: tech@moberly.k12.mo.us or by calling 660-269-2665. --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:39:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] NKMAA SEMINAR - Rochester, MN To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes, I apologize for getting the notice out so late, but I, too was at the seminar in Rochester, MN. I want to thank GM Timmmerman, Master Janisse, and PSN Demanaous for introducing me to new levels of pain. I never thought my wrists could feel like that or that -- dare I say it -- I'd enjoy it so much... Thank you. Jeremy Anderson. --- Fred Gommels wrote: > The Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc., Rochester, MN www.mafci.com > was honored to host a NKMAA HKD-KongShinBup > martial > arts seminar on the weekend of April 1. > > GM Timmerman, assisted by Master Janisse, and PSN Demanaous, did an > outstanding job as the seminar instructors. > Thank you so much for the fine seminar. > I have had many people express their appreciation to me for hosting this > event. > They enjoyed the practicality of the techniques taught, the variety, the > quality of your teaching, and your friendly manner of conveying the > material. > We so look forward to having you back again. > > I wish you well in your Korea tour. > Sincerely, > Fred Gommels - Director > > > Fredrick J. Gommels > Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc. > Korea / USA Simmudo Association > 2849 S. Broadway > Rochester MN 55904 > www.mafci.com www.simmudo.com > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 06:45:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeremy Anderson Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you're looking to stretch out your hamstrings, maybe you should work in a "high-kicking" art. A good instructor won't push you beyond your limits and might have the appropriate in-class stretches to help you out. When I started in TKD, I couldn't kick above my knee. Now I can get head-high kicks. Jeremy Anderson. --- steve slocum wrote: > hello all. :) i'm a 29 yr old male interested in studying a Korean form > of martial arts. > My main concern is that due to a physical handicap. my hamstrings are > extremely tight therefore my kicking would be low. i would like to study > a form that doesnt focus so much on high kicks. i've heard that through > strenuous and long term stretching. my hamstrings would get better, but > for the time being i'd like to study a form more aimed at upper body, > with some to little kicking required. any help or info would be greatly > appreciated. thank you. > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and > save big. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 07:32:28 -0700 (PDT) From: steven riggs Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have found for me and a number of my students that the approach taken by Thomas Kurz in his "Stretching Scientifically" are really quite good. He applies a great deal of medical research, and knowledge of kinesiology and physiology. His is a very disciplined approach involving both strengthening and stretching exercises and focusing on the proper exercises in the proper order. It significantly cut down on my straining muscles and I have watched my sidekick going back up at age 51. Steven Riggs Jeremy Anderson wrote: If you're looking to stretch out your hamstrings, maybe you should work in a "high-kicking" art. A good instructor won't push you beyond your limits and might have the appropriate in-class stretches to help you out. When I started in TKD, I couldn't kick above my knee. Now I can get head-high kicks. Jeremy Anderson. --- steve slocum wrote: > hello all. :) i'm a 29 yr old male interested in studying a Korean form > of martial arts. > My main concern is that due to a physical handicap. my hamstrings are > extremely tight therefore my kicking would be low. i would like to study > a form that doesnt focus so much on high kicks. i've heard that through > strenuous and long term stretching. my hamstrings would get better, but > for the time being i'd like to study a form more aimed at upper body, > with some to little kicking required. any help or info would be greatly > appreciated. thank you. > > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and > save big. > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "John Nowicki" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:45:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] We need more commercials like this. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear DD'ers, Found this video on youtube and I laughed for a good five minutes.      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoOW54gUweE&search=Tae%20Kwon%20Do Did anybody ever actually see this commercial on TV?  I suspect it was only in other countries.  My apologies if someone already shared this clip.  If you are a fan of MA videos online as I am (Thank You Jye) there seems to be an endless supply on youtube.  John M. Nowicki         --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:04:33 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net True to a large extent, especially with those dojangs that focus on training for tournaments. However, they have very different roots and and dojangs that focus on traditional training will show stylistic differences. Historicall, Chungdokwan was founded Lee Won-kuk, who studied Shotokan under Funakoshi and either received a second or third dan before returning to Korea and founding he Chungdokwan (Eric Maddis, 2002). Jidokwan was an offshoot of Yoonmookwan and was founded by Yun Kwei-byung, who studied Shito-ryu from Mabuni Kenwa and Shudokan from Toyama Kanken, from whom he earned a 7th dan before returning to Korea (Maddis, 2002). Having originated in a traditional Jidokwan school, I can speak to some of the things that make it different from other TKD styles that I have observed and trained in. First, Jidokwan emphasizes low, deep stances, which is reflected in the schools symbol of the small circle over the large circle. This symbol also represents the idea of the punching bag that pops back up after you knock it down. As the saying goes in Jidokwan, "get knocked down nine times, get up ten." The basic fighting stance that is used most is the "side fighting" stance, which is a side facing horse stance. Again, this is a low deep stance. Another feature of Jidokwan is that it has a concept of circular motion and redirecting the energy of your partner's attack that is similar to that found in Aikido. Rather than blocking against an incoming strike, the blocks in Jidokwan tend to flow with the strike and redirect it to either open your partner up to a counter strike or throw him off ballance so that he is open for a counter strike. The concept of sparring in Jidokwan is not to beat your partner into submission in order to "win," but is to help teach your partner by demonstrating how he can improve his technique. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Ray Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  Re: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo Date:  Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:14:06 -0700 (PDT) > > I have done some amount of research on this subject and have yet to > > figure out what the profound difference between Ji Do Kwan and Chung Do > > Kwan Taekwondo is. I would like to know if anyone has any responce to > > this. I am deeply engaged in Taekwondo history. However, I have been > > looking more into the ITF side then the WTF side. Also, I have not been > > looking as hard at the Kwans it was created from. The internet can be a > > useful tool, but you cannot always trust what you see. However, Hopefully > > someone here has some knowledge on this topic. Can anyone enlighten me? > > What is the difference between Chung Do Kwan and Ji Do Kwon Taekwondo? > >You are looking at the ITF side for the diff between the JiDo Kwan TKD and >the Chung Do Kwan TKD?  That just doesn't compute... > >Both those kwans are part of Kukki-TKD.  So essentially -today- there is no >difference in the Taekwondo of the two. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] We need more commercials like this. Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:22:44 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a good response to the "you hit like a girl" taunt. Just put 'em in the ring with Miss Ho. [IMAGE] -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "John Nowicki" Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  [The_Dojang] We need more commercials like this. Date:  Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:45:28 -0500 >Dear DD'ers, > >Found this video on youtube and I laughed for a good five minutes.      > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoOW54gUweE&search=Tae%20Kwon%20Do > >Did anybody ever actually see this commercial on TV?  I suspect it was >only in other countries.  My apologies if someone already shared this >clip.  If you are a fan of MA videos online as I am (Thank You Jye) there >seems to be an endless supply on youtube.  > >John M. Nowicki > >  > >  > >  > >  >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:48:28 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "I don't think he would be in the camp of Korean revisionist history." I think the revisionist history would be to argue that there was not an official ban.  I have also read that there was a ban by the Choson Court under Kojong, but haven't seen any documentation, though. If the Court did ban civillians from training in fighting arts, then that would have been covered by Seiri #7, which was the order by the Government General that continued the enforcement for the Korean population of the Choson penal code. The main difference then would have been in terms of enforcement, as the Colonial police force was a modern police force based on the Japanese model and was much more efficient than what existed in the Choson period. Seiri #7 was rescinded by Saito in 1920 in order to "spread enlighlightenment" to Korea and "elevate" the Koreans to the same level as the Japanese vis a vis the spirit of Taisho Democracy. That said, I have a feeling that for the most part it was more of a general attitude by the officials, both Choson and Government General, that discouraged civillians training in any kind of fighting arts than an actual ban. Given the general decline in the martial arts in the Choson period, I don't think an official ban would have been necessary. To follow up on something from Dakin Burdick's article. He mentioned the role of Buddhist temples in MA training. Has anyone looked at the possible role that Chondogyo may have played? Chondogyo is based on the Tonghak movement, which nearly overthrew the Choson government in 1894, and was very active in the Independence Movement. Seems like they would have had an interest in MA training. Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Erik Kluzek Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:13:59 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Everyone A term I use in class is "Fu-Jin" which we use when facing forward but moving backwards (usually with a strike or block). As I've recently started learning Hangul, I now realize the term could NOT be "Fu-Jin", as Korean does not have a "F" sound. It could be "Hu-Jin" or "Bu-Jin" though. I'm wondering if anyone else uses this term and either knows the correct pronunciation or the Hangul for it? Thanks! Erik Kluzek Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts http://www.coloradobluewave.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Some further thoughts on the Japanese Police System Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:24:00 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The Japanese police systempre-1945, which was what was imposed upon Korea via the Government General of Chosen, divided their law enforcement efforts into two tiers based on the concept of rule-by-law rather than the rule-of-law. The first and most common tier was law enforcement aimed at promoting social harmony in order to maximize the productivity of the imperial subjects. Examples of this would be most of the penal code type laws, such as laws against assualt, theft, gambling, etc.  Under the philosophy of rule-by-law, the goal of enforcing these laws is not to promote a just or equitable society, but to maintain social harmony in order to maximize production. The second tier of law enforcement was aimed at maintaining political stability and was the province of the Special Higher Police (Tokubutsu Ko Keisatsu, or simply Toko). If there was a ban on the civillian practice of martial arts, we must look for what the justification was in order to see how it was enforced. If the authorities viewed the civillian practice of martial arts as a threat to social harmony (e.g. leads to fighting, which leads to a loss in productivity from injured subjects and can lead to feuds, which will even further lower productivity), then the ban would have been enforced by the regular police force and would have been listed in the crime statistics under offenses against the penal code. If the authorities viewed the practice of martial arts by civillians as a threat to the political order (i.e. could be used to foment rebellion ala the Boxers in China), then any prohibition would have been enforced by the Toko and any offenses would have been listed under violations of special laws, such as the prohibition against the carrying of swords or guns or violations of the Peace Preservation Law. However, in my research of crime in Colonial Korea I have not found any listing under the statistics for violations of the penal law or violations of the special laws. However, if the authorities did not view KMA as a threat in either tier, but simply saw it as something to be discouraged, then enforcement would have been more informal and there would not be a record of it. In addition, if KMA was seen as representing Korean culture, than the authorities would most definately have tried to discourage the practice of any KMA after 1937 when the assimilation policies in Taiwan and Korea were introduced. It is these policies that stand out in most Koreans memories as being emblematic of the Japanese occupation. However, until these policies were put in place, there was no active policy to erase Korean culture. In fact, Saito encouraged Cultural Nationalism in the 1920s as a means of dividing the independence movement between the conservatives and the leftists. The current widespread use of Hangul is a direct result of the activities of the Cultural Nationalists in the '20s and early '30s. Saito was also successful in his divide and conquer strategy, with the result that the Toko was able to focus its efforts on wiping out the more militant leftist nationalists, especially the Communists, so that by 1930 there was virtually no independence movement left in Korea other than the gradualist approach offered by the more conservative Cultural Nationalists. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  "Rick Clark" Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:   Subject:  RE: [The_Dojang] Japanese Ban on Fighting Arts Date:  Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:45:19 -0500 >Hi Joseph, > >Don Dragger in his book Asian Martial Arts (think that's the name) >stated that Judo, Kendo, and Juken jitsu were the only arts allowed to >be taught and they were taught in the schools.  Dragger is regarded as a >rather good source - he had his main backgound in Judo and Japanese >arts.  I don't think he would be in the camp of Korean revisionist >history. > >Rick Clark   "I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde > > >www.ao-denkou-kai.org > >From: Joseph Cheavens [mailto:jcheavens@hotmail.com] > > > >Dakin: In your article, you mention that the Japanese banned > >the practice of any fighting arts in 1909. Do you have any > >documentation of this, or is this what one of your sources > >told you in an interview?  >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:05:04 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net the term is pronounced who-jin--- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Kluzek" To: Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? > Hey Everyone > > A term I use in class is "Fu-Jin" which we use when facing forward > but moving backwards (usually with a strike or block). As I've > recently started learning Hangul, I now realize the term could NOT be > "Fu-Jin", as Korean does not have a "F" sound. It could be "Hu-Jin" > or "Bu-Jin" though. I'm wondering if anyone else uses this term and > either knows the correct pronunciation or the Hangul for it? > > > Thanks! > > Erik Kluzek > Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts > http://www.coloradobluewave.org > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:55:27 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry I don't have hangul fonts. "Hu" means "after" and "chon" (written with the macron over the top in McCune-Reishaur) means "before." I've always found it somewhat odd that "hu-jin" means "back-step" and "chon-jin" means "forward-step" instead of "dwi-ji" and "ap-ji." Perhaps there is an overlap between spacial and temporal concepts with regards to motion. I'll poke around in my Korean dictionaries to see if there are any definitions for "hu" and "chon" that relate to backward and forward motion. Joe Cheavens -------------------------------------------------------------------- From:  Erik Kluzek Reply-To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To:  the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject:  [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? Date:  Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:13:59 -0600 >Hey Everyone > > A term I use in class is "Fu-Jin" which we use when facing forward   >but moving backwards (usually with a strike or block). As I've   >recently started learning Hangul, I now realize the term could NOT >be  "Fu-Jin", as Korean does not have a "F" sound. It could be >"Hu-Jin"  or "Bu-Jin" though. I'm wondering if anyone else uses this >term and  either knows the correct pronunciation or the Hangul for >it? > > >Thanks! > >Erik Kluzek >Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts >http://www.coloradobluewave.org >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Having originated in a traditional Jidokwan school, I can speak to some > of the things that make it different from other TKD styles that I have > observed and trained in. First, Jidokwan emphasizes low, deep stances, > which is reflected in the schools symbol of the small circle over the > large circle. This symbol also represents the idea of the punching bag > that pops back up after you knock it down. As the saying goes in > Jidokwan, "get knocked down nine times, get up ten." You lost me there. How does the Jido kwan symbol imply a low stance? A low deep stance and fighting from a side facing horse stance is pretty much just old style Korean Karate that you saw in most all the kwans. Actually, it was the JiDo Kwan folks that really led the way in optimizing and speeding up sport style TKD. That goes back to the late 60s or 70s. In other words JiDo kwan was working on the sport side prior to the other kwans, and frequently placed the most players on the national teams. The JiDo kwan high schoolers were beating out many of the college players, so (I've been told) the regulations were changed, raising the minimum age to make the national team. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest