Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:01:17 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #168 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji (Joseph Cheavens) 2. Re: Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? (jakskru) 3. master of spandex (Ray) 4. RE: master of spandex (michael tomlinson) 5. Re: Eric Maddis reference? and Japanese ban on martial arts... (Erik Kluzek) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] What is the difference? Chung Do Kwan and Ji Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "You lost me there.  How does the Jido kwan symbol imply a low stance?" The small circle represents the upper body and the bigger circle represents the lowerbody, i.e. emphasis on a low center of gravity. From what my instructor told me, the lotus flower was a later addition to the symbol. The older patches, which I used to have one of, did not have the lotus flower and was simply the two circles. In the photos I've seen of jidokwan practitioners in the '70s some had the lotus flower ring and others did not. Here is one such photo. http://www.worldjidokwan.com/gallery/photo6.jpg Note the presence of Lee Dae-sung, who was the US Team coach for a while and is Kwanjang-nim at US Taekwondo dojang in Honolulu. The caption about him being a true gentleman is spot on.   Jidokwon Symbol       As for Jidokwan and the competition sparring, this was actually a bone of contention within the Jidokwan. Yun Kwei-byung was opposed to joining the KTA before it became the WTF and the focus on comepitive sparring. True, he was the one to make many of the advances in protective gear that made competitive sparring possible, but he felt that sparring should be only one component of a ballance curriculum and that the goal of training should not be to do well at competitions. Some of his senior students broke off and joined the KTA. My subumnim's kwanjangnim, Bong Young Choi (Ch'oe Bong-yong), was in the Jidokwan camp that did not emphasize competition, viewing competition as promoting egotism. Master Choi taught that sparring should be a collaborative effort for both partners to improve each other's skills. Joe Cheavens --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "jakskru" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:35:15 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net all i know is what commands we are given--chon-jin ap-cha-gi hu-jin, hu-jin etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Cheavens" To: Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:55 PM Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? > Sorry I don't have hangul fonts. "Hu" means "after" and "chon" (written > with the macron over the top in McCune-Reishaur) means "before." I've > always found it somewhat odd that "hu-jin" means "back-step" and > "chon-jin" means "forward-step" instead of "dwi-ji" and "ap-ji." Perhaps > there is an overlap between spacial and temporal concepts with regards to > motion. I'll poke around in my Korean dictionaries to see if there are > any definitions for "hu" and "chon" that relate to backward and forward > motion. > > Joe Cheavens > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: Erik Kluzek > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Subject: [The_Dojang] Anyone know the Korean term for retreating? > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:13:59 -0600 > >Hey Everyone > > > > A term I use in class is "Fu-Jin" which we use when facing > forward > >but moving backwards (usually with a strike or block). As I've > >recently started learning Hangul, I now realize the term could NOT > >be "Fu-Jin", as Korean does not have a "F" sound. It could be > >"Hu-Jin" or "Bu-Jin" though. I'm wondering if anyone else uses this > >term and either knows the correct pronunciation or the Hangul for > >it? > > > > > >Thanks! > > > >Erik Kluzek > >Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts > >http://www.coloradobluewave.org > >!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >_______________________________________________ > >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > >Standard disclaimers apply > >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource > Standard disclaimers apply > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] master of spandex Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Did ya catch this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GNxKCsTvLY&search=Tae%20Kwon%20Do The master of purple-spandex would fit in well here... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] master of spandex Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 01:29:23 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dang I kept looking for a disco ball and strobe light! Michael Tomlinson >From: Ray >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) >Subject: [The_Dojang] master of spandex >Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:51:54 -0700 (PDT) > >Did ya catch this one? > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GNxKCsTvLY&search=Tae%20Kwon%20Do > >The master of purple-spandex would fit in well here... > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource >Standard disclaimers apply >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Erik Kluzek Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:45:04 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Eric Maddis reference? and Japanese ban on martial arts... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joseph First of all thank you for answering my question about "HuJin", that I had misconstrued as "Fu-Jin". Good to know... Now, a question for you and a partial answer as well. > > True to a large extent, especially with those dojangs that focus on > training for tournaments. However, they have very different roots > and and > dojangs that focus on traditional training will show stylistic > differences. Historicall, Chungdokwan was founded Lee Won-kuk, who > studied Shotokan under Funakoshi and either received a second or third > dan before returning to Korea and founding he Chungdokwan (Eric > Maddis, > 2002). Jidokwan was an offshoot of Yoonmookwan and was founded by Yun > Kwei-byung, who studied Shito-ryu from Mabuni Kenwa and Shudokan from > Toyama Kanken, from whom he earned a 7th dan before returning to Korea > (Maddis, 2002). > What is the full reference for Eric Maddis, 2002? I'm very interested in any information on Lee, Won-kuk, as my heritage is in the Chung Do Kwan. > > I think the revisionist history would be to argue that there was > not an > official ban. I have also read that there was a ban by the Choson > Court > under Kojong, but haven't seen any documentation, though. If the Court > did ban civillians from training in fighting arts, then that would > have > been covered by Seiri #7, which was the order by the Government > General > that continued the enforcement for the Korean population of the Choson > penal code. The main difference then would have been in terms of > enforcement, as the Colonial police force was a modern police force > based > on the Japanese model and was much more efficient than what existed > in the Choson period. Seiri #7 was rescinded by Saito in 1920 in > order to > "spread enlighlightenment" to Korea and "elevate" the Koreans to > the same > level as the Japanese vis a vis the spirit of Taisho Democracy. > In the interview of Lee, Won-kuk in Tae Kwon Do Times, March 1997, page 46 Master Lee says "Of course, in the days of occupation, it was forbidden by the Japanese to teach or study any martial arts including Tang Soo Do, a Korean style." He continues saying "..I never thought that Korea would win independence from Japan. I wanted to return to Korea and help my people learn about martial arts. When I returned in 1944, one year before independence, I applied to the occupation government to be allowed to teach Tang Soo Do in Korea. I was insistent, but the government rejected my request twice. The third time, they finally approved. I taught Tang Soo Do for the first time in Korea at the Yung Shin School Gymnasium in Sa De Mun, Ok Chun Dong district in Seoul." Personally, I tend to believe this account, for several reasons. First he is specific, he gives details. In the full article there are various pictures and other specifics, some pictures clearly have dates on them as well. He also admits to some facts that could be deemed embarrassing, that he went to exile to Japan during the Korean war, and that he had nothing to do with coining the name "Tae Kwon Do". Also his request to open a martial arts school to the Japanese authorities got him in trouble for "being a Japanese sympathizer" after liberation. He also doesn't claim special knowledge or enlightenment, he gives credit to his Japanese instructor (which he improperly labels as Hunagoshi, founder of Gojurhu Karate [but as there is no F in Korean, it's easy to credit this to a misinterpretation -- Master Lee never spoke English, only Japanese or Korean]). Giving credit to the Japanese is also something frowned upon, so it sounds truthful to me. There's also many other folks that collaborate much of this story, so it's easier to take it at face value. As already pointed out, there's a lot of untruth about Korean Martial Arts history, so it's vital to examine each piece of evidence carefully, and see if it stacks up with others. Consider the source, find if it's collaborated by other physical evidence and both friends and opponents... Anyway, I digress, back to your original question I wonder if the "application" to open a martial arts school to the Japanese government could be discovered? Erik Kluzek Colorado Blue Wave Martial Arts http://www.coloradobluewave.org !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest