Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:02:20 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 13 #178 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. 2,100 members. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Charles Dudley (JR West) 3. Taking forms apart (sidtkd@aol.com) 4. =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?2008_Olympic_Games=92_Asian_taekwondo_qualifie rs?= (The_Dojang) 5. Grand Master Ji Young Song (Hindley) 6. Re: Grand Master Ji Young Song (Ray) 7. Re: Grand Master Ji Young Song (Jye nigma) 8. Re: Forms interpretation (Jye nigma) 9. RE: Forms interpretation (Rick Clark) 10. forms & defense (Richard Tomlinson) 11. Re: forms & defense (randyd1952@aol.com) 12. Re: forms & defense (Jye nigma) 13. Re: forms & defense (Jye nigma) --__--__-- Message: 1 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Rudy Timmerman Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 02:12:12 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jeremy writes: > Yes, I apologize for getting the notice out so late, but I, too was > at the > seminar in Rochester, MN. I want to thank GM Timmmerman, Master > Janisse, > and PSN Demanaous for introducing me to new levels of pain. I never > thought my wrists could feel like that or that -- dare I say it -- I'd > enjoy it so much... > > Thank you. > Jeremy Anderson. > > --- Fred Gommels wrote: > > >> The Martial Art Fitness Centers, Inc., Rochester, MN www.mafci.com >> was honored to host a NKMAA HKD-KongShinBup >> martial >> arts seminar on the weekend of April 1. >> >> GM Timmerman, assisted by Master Janisse, and PSN Demanaous, did an >> outstanding job as the seminar instructors. >> Thank you so much for the fine seminar. >> I have had many people express their appreciation to me for >> hosting this >> event. >> They enjoyed the practicality of the techniques taught, the >> variety, the >> quality of your teaching, and your friendly manner of conveying the >> material. >> We so look forward to having you back again. >> >> I wish you well in your Korea tour. >> Sincerely, >> Fred Gommels - Director >> Hello Master Gommels and Jeremy: Thank you so much for the kind words. I just returned from Korea a few minutes ago, and I apologize for the tardiness in answering your comments. I must say that the students present at Master Gommel's seminar were absolutely wonderful to work with, and I thoroughly enjoyed being on the mat with all of you. Many have sent me private thank you notes, and I appreciated this very much. It is always nice to get feedback, and when it is as positive as from the Rochester MN seminar it makes one feel good :) I would also like this opportunity to thank Masters Janisse, Gordon, Miner, Custer, Ott, and the 50 plus NKMAA members, moms, and dads, who joined me in a visit to Korea the past week or so. I was happy to have you all along, and you all made me very proud. Congratulations to everyone for doing so well in the tournament and the training... especially the young folks who performed well off and on the mat. Great Jung Shin Spirit :) Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "JR West" To: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:43:28 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Charles Dudley Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "Charles Dudley is the 4th dan school owner, he tells me he reached brown belt in KSW in the 70's but has been with the KJMS org ever since. I don't get the impession, at least so far, that it is a mcdojang." If it is the same "Charles Dudley", he is from the Jackson, MS area, and was my student up to red belt (1st gup) in Hapkido and before that he held a brown belt in Shotokan under Master Mikami and Rip Hoxie (Charles' uncle). He trained with me until 1981 when he dropped off the planet. He attended the WKSW tournament in Pusan in 1981 and was taught enough Kuk Sool to be able to pass as one of their players on the trip, but from there the story goes rapidly downhill. I would rather let him tell you about it. I will say that he was an excellent player as well as my next door neighbor. He was definitely NOT training in KSW in the 1970s.......JRW www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:58:39 -0400 From: sidtkd@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taking forms apart Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In teaching forms in the past, I've run into some students that told me the forms are hard to remember, have little relevance to sparring and don't have modern sel-defense applications. The very first thing I do is tell the students what each form symbolizes. E.G. Tae Kuk 4 is the Fire Form. Secondly, each form is a walking meditation and after all the components are learned, students are required to perform the forms in meditation. Lastly, two or three pieces of each form become part of the ongoing two or three step sparrinng that is required for each belt promotion. Most important, each new move is explained in terms of what these moves mean. In Koryo for example I explain that the first series of leg maneuvers are a low kick block followed by a middle side kick. All this has changed student perception of forms greatly. Sid --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 06:33:36 -0700 From: The_Dojang To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?2008_Olympic_Games=92_Asian_taekwondo_qualifie rs?= Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Vietnam to host 2008 Olympic Games' Asian taekwondo qualifiers Vietnam was selected Friday to host the Olympic Games 2008's Asian qualifying stage for taekwondo at the Asian Taekwondo Union (ATU) meeting this week in Bangkok, Thailand. Vietnam won the ATU selection to organize the event, to take place in November 2007, with 18 out of 41 ballots, beating Thailand who received 13/41 votes and Qatar with 8/41, according to Truong Ngoc De, general secretary of the Vietnam Taekwondo Federation. The ATU meeting also decided Jordan as host of the Asian Junior Taekwondo Championship 2007, and China to host the 19th Asian Taekwondo Championship in 2008. Exact dates for the two events have yet to be confirmed. In Olympic competition, Vietnam did not win a medal at its only Olympic games so far in Athens, Greece. Source: VietnamNet --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hindley" To: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:44:38 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grand Master Ji Young Song Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Terry I found this Korean Master in Douglasville, GA. He says he is a WTF ranked Grandmaster ,9th Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD and a 7th Dan in HKD with the WHF. His bio lists International Certified Instructor, Referee and Judge His name is Grand Master Ji Young Song. He has quite a collection of Pictures on his wall with the president of the Kukikwon and WTF and many more from years past. So many trophies and fight posters featuring himself on the walls He was very nice and took and hour or more with me and my sons durring one of his classes discussing his training of old in Korea and seemed very knowledgeable. The workouts are very intense. His wife Sung Pae Song(4th Dan WTF ranked Master) and him are very strict and respectful and traditional His bio says: Ji Young Song, a 9th Dan Tae Kwon Do Grand Master and 7th Hapkido Dan, is one of the most respected Korean Tae Kwon Do masters for his ability and his reputation as an international referee and judge, National Champion in Korea, Chief Instructor in the Korean Army, and former coach of the Children's National Korean Demo Team. The web site is: www.songtkdusa.com Has anyone heard of him or had any experience with him? With your VAST library of knowledge of history and that on the DD I was hoping you could give me some more info? Thanks so much. My sons and I have been to 5 dojangs in the last month looking for a good instructor and hoping we found one. Sincerely Greg Hindley --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Grand Master Ji Young Song To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 07:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > He says he is a WTF ranked Grandmaster, 9th Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD > and a 7th Dan in HKD with the WHF. It would be interesting to determine what his WTF/Kukkiwon rank actually is... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 08:58:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Grand Master Ji Young Song To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have met him before and he is indeed a nice man. I like how children calls him sir of course, but he in turn calls them sir...lol. I was going to take my son there after school, but I couldn't work out a schedule where my son could do his homework before starting class and getting to class on time. Jye Hindley wrote: Mr. Terry I found this Korean Master in Douglasville, GA. He says he is a WTF ranked Grandmaster ,9th Dan in Chung Do Kwan TKD and a 7th Dan in HKD with the WHF. His bio lists International Certified Instructor, Referee and Judge His name is Grand Master Ji Young Song. He has quite a collection of Pictures on his wall with the president of the Kukikwon and WTF and many more from years past. So many trophies and fight posters featuring himself on the walls He was very nice and took and hour or more with me and my sons durring one of his classes discussing his training of old in Korea and seemed very knowledgeable. The workouts are very intense. His wife Sung Pae Song(4th Dan WTF ranked Master) and him are very strict and respectful and traditional His bio says: Ji Young Song, a 9th Dan Tae Kwon Do Grand Master and 7th Hapkido Dan, is one of the most respected Korean Tae Kwon Do masters for his ability and his reputation as an international referee and judge, National Champion in Korea, Chief Instructor in the Korean Army, and former coach of the Children's National Korean Demo Team. The web site is: www.songtkdusa.com Has anyone heard of him or had any experience with him? With your VAST library of knowledge of history and that on the DD I was hoping you could give me some more info? Thanks so much. My sons and I have been to 5 dojangs in the last month looking for a good instructor and hoping we found one. Sincerely Greg Hindley _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 09:12:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes this is sort of what I'm talking about. See from what you just explained, you could go a step further and show the self defense application of that, building off of what you already showed the class. I think if we begin discussion of forms on this board and started dissecting them, we would get some incredle ideas from the forms. Jye Gordon wrote: We don't actually take them apart. We demonstrate what is happening while going through the pattern. When first teaching a pattern, we have multiple attackers around the one person doing the pattern. So when they low block, their attacker is giving them a front kick to block. When they swing their arm in a circular motion, their attacker has grabbed them and they break the hold with the circular movement. We get a lot of "oh's" when stuff like this is shown. Gordon Okerstrom _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:06:31 -0400 From: "Rick Clark" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Forms interpretation To: Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Jye, >From: Jye nigma [mailto:kingjye@yahoo.com] >Yes this is sort of what I'm talking about. See from what you just explained, you could go a step further and show the self >defense application of that, building off of what you already showed the class. I think if we begin discussion of forms on >this board and started dissecting them, we would get some incredle ideas from the forms. > > Jye > > >Gordon wrote: > We don't actually take them apart. We demonstrate what is happening while going through the pattern. When first teaching >a pattern, we have multiple attackers around the one person doing the pattern. So when they low block, their attacker is >giving them a front kick to block. When they swing their arm in a circular motion, their attacker has grabbed them and they >break the hold with the circular movement. We get a lot of "oh's" when stuff like this is shown. Just out of curiosity do you think that a down block is really used against someone who is putting a front (side) kick at your midsection? In the forms you have one hand down "blocking" and the other at your waist. Can you ever think of a time in sparing when you block a kick like this? Do you think you would do this for real if some one was going to attack you on the street? Rick Clark www.ao-denkou-kai.org --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Richard Tomlinson" To: Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:20:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] forms & defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With 3 to 6 year olds, no, they can not understand.6 to 10 or 11, not really. Adults? forms and application? Absolutely! why teach forms otherwise, as just movements? say what??? sandy --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:19:33 -0400 From: randyd1952@aol.com Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] forms & defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dojang, While it may be lacking in the "martial," I do find the forms to be a kind of meditation that is healthy for the body, clearing to the mind, and training for the spirit. I take pleasure in them most times merely for themselves. I am over 50 and not been in an even remotely physically dangerous situation for well over a decade except in the artificial environment of sparring. Nevertheless, I know mine is a minority position and mean no offense. I do, however, suspect there are others like me. Doc -----Original Message----- From: Richard Tomlinson To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sent: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 21:20:48 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] forms & defense With 3 to 6 year olds, no, they can not understand.6 to 10 or 11, not really. Adults? forms and application? Absolutely! why teach forms otherwise, as just movements? say what??? sandy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] forms & defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net lol...so when you learned your forms, did your teacher teach you the meaning behind the movements? or was that something you investigated yourself. I'm asking because this in my experience is not something that was taught in TKD like it was in my kung fu training. Jye Richard Tomlinson wrote: With 3 to 6 year olds, no, they can not understand.6 to 10 or 11, not really. Adults? forms and application? Absolutely! why teach forms otherwise, as just movements? say what??? sandy _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list, 2,100 members The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. --__--__-- Message: 13 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:46:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jye nigma Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] forms & defense To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I used to do the forms and not really care for them because I mostly wanted to fight! I mean if I could go to class for 3 hours and spar all 3 hours I would been in hog heaven! I've come across a guy who always said that the average martial artist could "not use their art" in a combat situation, and I was always thinking that's not true...until I saw what he meant. He performed his set (form) and then began to show the meaning of the form in martial applications. That made perfect sense to me as I could relate having been exposed to kung fu. So what he was showing was fighting using movements, principles, understandings all from his form. Things like the way they step is actually not a step to gain space, but to attack the legs breaking the knee caps, and things of that nature. So I began to wonder, hmmm, I wonder if TKD developers had a written explanation of the movements in their forms, and so now I'm retracing my TKD roots sort of speak because that is something quite interesting. I've also been searching around for shotokan information on forms. Jye randyd1952@aol.com wrote: Dear Dojang, While it may be lacking in the "martial," I do find the forms to be a kind of meditation that is healthy for the body, clearing to the mind, and training for the spirit. I take pleasure in them most times merely for themselves. I am over 50 and not been in an even remotely physically dangerous situation for well over a decade except in the artificial environment of sparring. Nevertheless, I know mine is a minority position and mean no offense. I do, however, suspect there are others like me. Doc --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net Old digest issues @ ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com/pub/the_dojang Copyright 1994-2006: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember September 11. End of The_Dojang Digest